Cannot go beyond ejaculation

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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My main issue is that I can't go beyond orgasm with ejaculation which entirely spoils the experience. Is it that I am just a beginner or haven't relaxed enough yet? Has anyone experienced this difficulty?

First I'd like to welcome you to the Aneros Forums. You are among a minority of members who experience HFWO's spontaneously. While some men would be desirous of this ability, others, like yourself, find it frustrating as they can not thereafter continue into the Super-O zone. 

The best help I can offer is to have you read the following threads to perhaps find a solution that works for you. How to avoid ejaculation?, How to avoid handsfree wet orgasms , Avoiding ejaculation during orgasm? , Hands free ejaculation being an obstacle & Cumming while lying face down.

Good Vibes to You!

@rumel Thank you for pointing these resources and responding on spot. I might have done the search myself, so I am grateful for your help. On the second thoughts I should appreciate the ability of HFO. That's a very good point you made about me being the minority which I totally forgot. I need to admit though that I did learnt it with practice. This was then to some point intended and now only when switching to Aneros experience it became an obstacle.

When I find some success in these techniques I will keep posting my observation.

@sebastian-minski 

Lately I've been thinking that ejaculation doesn't have to be the end of a session, after reading a few posts here or on reddit. For me, ejaculation introduces the following factors:

1. almost unbearable penile sensitivity
2. intense relaxation
3. a mental inclination to wrap up sexual activity

For prostate play, the 1st factor is irrelevant. The 2nd factor is potentially beneficial. Only the 3rd factor is problematic, and I think it can be unlearned or overcome.

I recently put this into practice in my last session with my new maximus trident; I had a HFDO, then used my hands to have an ejaculatory orgasm, ignored the mental inclination to stop, and proceeded to have another HFDO. It was of lower intensity than my first orgasm, but I think that was more because I was distracted by time constraints.

Maybe you can try to keep going after ejaculation? Of course, maybe since you are able to have a HFWO in the first place, your usage is somehow stimulating your penis already and that could get uncomfortable after ejaculation. Food for thought!

@diddlemethis That's an interesting observation, as it is known that after ejaculation we are less susceptible to have another penile orgasm due to some refractory period. Unfortunately it is very unlikely I will be able to take advantage of it as my refractory period is really awful. My mood can drop so low that it is sometimes unbearable. It is exactly the fact why I become interested in prostate play. I have discovered that prostate orgasm can give me less of this bad effect on my mood. What is left though is a feeling of extreme exhaustion. Sometime immediate, sometimes happening after a day or two, combined with reappearing sexual tension. Taking into account that my refractory period is usually one, two days, it is sometimes like a vicious cycle. I start to think that it is this imbalance when I don't actually entirely reset and don't actually fully experience the release after orgasm is the reason I am stuck with my Aneros play.

Sometimes during a session I will use a handheld massager on my perenium which also stimulates my prostate and can result in prostate and HFWO together. The intense pleasure continues and does not require a refractory period so guess it’s mind over matter! 

@fred27 I have tried that. Orgasm comes very fast with ejaculation in my case so I usually avoid. Happy for you to have such an easy method. I fight both the refractory period and the frustration when on abstinence but I will probably give a chance to abstinence again. Would like to be more mindful and gain more control.

@rumel I was studying your theories for a while and feel like they making very much sense to my practice and experience. I am trying to get control of the situation by planned abstinence. You mentioned somewhere something about homeostatic balance in the level of hormones. Could you elaborate more on that please? I was wondering if by this planned abstinence my arousal and hormone levels would only rise or do I have a chance to achieve some kind of equilibrium with more relaxed state with less chaotic states of high arousal. frustration, even heart rate jumps. I guess your theory is that the higher level of arousal the better and this seems contrary to what I blame for my failure with super-Os. I believe I don't fully restart after wet orgasm (the orgasm seems to be incomplete and not fully satisfying, too) and when the frustration rise during the session I am not relaxed enough to fully embrace the experience. 

Forgive me it the post is too chaotic an expression of my thoughts, but the key thing is that I believe that I deregulated my body response to orgasms and that constant arousal seem to keep me in the loop in which I never fully relax. What do you think? Does it make sense in the context of your theories?

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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I need to admit though that I did learnt it with practice. This was then to some point intended and now only when switching to Aneros experience it became an obstacle.

This may be a problem that you need to unlearn or at least develop an alternate pathway to overcome. Here's where muscle relaxation can really help. As arousal increases we tend to become more tense this is an aid to triggering the ejaculatory reflex. When you can get those pelvic floor muscles to relax the drive toward the ejaculatory response is decreased and hence the ability to get to a purely prostate based orgasm enhanced. While I am an advocate of practicing semen retention/abstinence (please see & Aneros, Arousal & Abstinence/Semen Retention) as an arousal building protocol, I also recognize that it can be a double edged sword in that it can lead to fluid pressure buildup in the seminal vesicles, prostate and even the testicles, pushing us to seek relief for the pressure via ejaculation and thus triggering the dreaded refractory period. How to avoid this becomes the question.

Getting to high arousal levels and maintaining a high level is possible with semen retention is possible but requires some discipline. The initial roller-coaster of masturbation leading to ejaculation leading to refractory period and the accompanying hormonal reset needs to be broken. One way that I found worked for me is via prostate milking

Please see my post in the thread Prostate Milking during Semen Retention which contains links to prostate 'milking' related information resources.

While the term prostate "massage” and prostate "milking” are often used interchangeably, I believe there is a distinct difference we can identify. Prostate “massage” is the act of stimulating/manipulating the prostate gland for pleasure or medical purposes, it may or may not lead to release of fluids or cause an orgasm. Prostate “milking” is the release of fluids as a direct result of prostate “massage”. The Aneros devices are prostate "massagers”, they may or may not be used as “milking” devices depending on the individuals involved.

Self “milking” with the Aneros via ‘hands free’ manipulation is difficult as one usually needs to be very relaxed for the ejaculatory ducts to open and allow the fluids to flow out of the prostate. The stronger, more vigorous, muscular contractions needed to effectively move the massager create a level of tension which is antithetical to the relaxation of the gland ducts. It is possible to train the various muscle groups to alternately relax and contract to accomplish a “milking” but it will take practice. It is unnecessary to employ strong muscle contractions with your Aneros use as a “massager” to generate orgasmic feelings, hence you can employ it for many hours without triggering a “milking” response.

'Milking' your prostate and seminal vesicles of fluids can be learned. You can read a short paragraph about Prostate Milking in the “Your Body” chapter of the Aneros WIKI. You can read a longer treatise on prostate milking technique and issues from Lady Lubyanka. There is also a well written blog by Andr. titled HOW TO MILK A BULL which gives step by step descriptions of the process.

For those of you interested in more information regarding prostate milking here are some links to articles/websites I've run across over the years which I found helpful in my learning. 1.) Prostate Milking 2.) Self Prostate Milking for Health and Pleasure! The male chastity community has developed a more focused interest in milking techniques/variations due to their limitation of traditional ejaculatory orgasms the following links are from such sites. 3.) Male Chastity Milking (Three Fun Ways to Do It) 4.) Different Male Milking Techniques for More Control 5.) A Lazy Domme's Guide - Prostate Milking

It seems every year there are more new articles extolling the merits of prostate milking so I guess the tide of social taboos against this activity is slowly changing. My own experience has revealed the conditions need to be 'right' to accomplish a true "milking" using your Aneros and without using your hand to manipulate the massager. Generally, you need to be highly aroused, your prostate needs to be full and engorged due to arousal (an erect penis from edging is helpful but not mandatory). You should be on the high excitement plateau just before reaching the PONR (Point of No Return), then using your sphincter and PC muscles start performing very strong, rhythmic, slow paced contractions with total relaxation between contractions. It is important to maintain your arousal level, through penile stimulation if necessary, but don't take yourself to the point of ejaculatory inevitability (PONR). This may take a long time and be somewhat strenuous but you will eventually get the ejaculatory ducts to open and the drip, drip, drip of prostatic fluid. The process may not yield much fluid nor be intensely pleasurable in relationship to the amount of energy expended, it can be done, but Aneros devices (regardless of model or size) may not be the best tools for this particular activity.

The best tool I've found for performing a real self "milking" is the Njoy 'Pure Wand'.The reason for this is tri fold. First, you will be able to manipulate it precisely to massage and pressure not only the prostate but also the seminal vesicles which contain the bulk of seminal fluid. Draining the seminal vesicles will get you to that fully emptied feeling where as just emptying the prostate mayl leave you still aroused and desirous of further emptying. Second, you will be able to apply more pressure to force fluid movement out of the seminal vesciles and prostate than the no hands massagers (even with vibration) can do through muscle contractions alone. Third, you will be able to relax (an essential aspect of the process) while performing this manipulation.

While solo use (as shown in this video) can be very pleasurable, I suspect having a professional masseuse do this would be much more pleasant as you could really just relax into the pleasurable release to be had.

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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@rumel I was studying your theories for a while and feel like they making very much sense to my practice and experience. I am trying to get control of the situation by planned abstinence. You mentioned somewhere something about homeostatic balance in the level of hormones. Could you elaborate more on that please?

Homeostasis of testosterone after ejaculation will occur after about 8-10 days of abstinence. Thereafter testosterone levels are pretty much stabilized but each ejaculation tends to upset this balance thus resetting the imbalance. Avoiding the ejaculatory response is the key to maintaining equilibrium, that's why prostate milking can be effective in helping overcome the masturbation/ejaculation roller-coaster ride of hormonal imbalance.

Good Vibes to You!

@rumel As always, extensive and compete answer. Thank you. 

Regarding prostate milking, interesting thing is that during my Aneros sessions for most of the time the fluid is dripping from my urethra so I have known the feeling already although I doubt this process could be complete this way. For reasons you have mentioned. I will have to work on it.

This time I was able to last 4 days of ejaculatory abstinence and actually my orgasm was one of the ruined ones as I haven't touched the penis in the process. This pretty much quickly restored my arousal level in the end of the day. I was able once to reach 8 days of abstinence. I could really feel my prostate being big and full. I usually produce large amounts of pre-ejaculate. These are actually that abundant that I really don't need any lubricant for ordinary masturbation.

I have heard that the fluid will actually be absorbed by the body after some time yet I expect this could be much longer period. I will probably be more successful with prostate milking. As I have hard privacy conditions this might be difficult to exercise but options are many so I look forward to investigating them. Thanks again for all the resources.

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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Regarding prostate milking, interesting thing is that during my Aneros sessions for most of the time the fluid is dripping from my urethra so I have known the feeling already although I doubt this process could be complete this way.

Yes, you are correct in that the leakage is preliminary to the emptying of the prostate or seminal vesicles. With continued prostate massage the ejaculatory ducts relax, opening and allowing the contents to flow out. It is the emptying that takes the pressure off the urge to ejaculate. With practice you learn how much the exchange of control for arousal is optimal for you.

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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This time I was able to last 4 days of ejaculatory abstinence and actually my orgasm was one of the ruined ones as I haven't touched the penis in the process. This pretty much quickly restored my arousal level in the end of the day.

Yes as you see, the ejaculation causes a longer refractory period but you can greatly effect this by keeping your prostate at a 'maintenance' level of arousal.

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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I was able once to reach 8 days of abstinence. I could really feel my prostate being big and full.

Yes, you've probably attained maximum restored testosterone at that point. This is the ideal time to do your milking. 

Posted by: @sebastian-minski

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I have heard that the fluid will actually be absorbed by the body after some time yet I expect this could be much longer period.

Yes, the fluids do get reabsorbed as they gradually breakdown but until the pressure is released the urge to ejaculate will be strong, countering that urge with appropriate milkings can keep you at a high arousal level, yet in control of the ejaculatory process.

Good Vibes to You!

Posted by: @rumel

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The best tool I've found for performing a real self "milking" is the Njoy 'Pure Wand'.The reason for this is tri fold. First, you will be able to manipulate it precisely to massage and pressure not only the prostate but also the seminal vesicles which contain the bulk of seminal fluid. Draining the seminal vesicles will get you to that fully emptied feeling where as just emptying the prostate mayl leave you still aroused and desirous of further emptying. Second, you will be able to apply more pressure to force fluid movement out of the seminal vesciles and prostate than the no hands massagers (even with vibration) can do through muscle contractions alone. Third, you will be able to relax (an essential aspect of the process) while performing this manipulation

I can see this toy is really expensive in my area of residence but the quality looks supreme. I wonder if there is any chance of wrong use, like making too much pressure or at the wrong spot. Now I am willing to try the milking procedure as described for Aneros. Let's see if I am successful enough 🙂 That would be great!

Posted by: @rumel

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Yes, the fluids do get reabsorbed as they gradually breakdown but until the pressure is released the urge to ejaculate will be strong, countering that urge with appropriate milkings can keep you at a high arousal level, yet in control of the ejaculatory process.

I am quite good with applying strong willpower to overcome desire to masturbate and less tolerant for the discomfort that such a big prostate causes. I wonder is it possible at all to overcome it with enough patience. I am afraid it might not be healthy for my prostate eventually. This brings me to reevaluate the purpose of all of it. Is it healthy to practice only (or in majority) dry orgasms? For what I really want is to take control of my arousal to avoid bad mood, awful exhaustion caused by ejaculatory orgasms. And have fun, too, of course 🙂 They say you have to ejaculate even 21 times a month for healthy prostate, cancer prevention and it might appear that I had to make my practice largely about prostate milking and less about actually playing with Super O's. 

OK, so I have given a chance to prostate milking. After 6 days of ejaculatory abstinence I did it twice and although I succeeded to the extent that I really saw that with strong enough pressure I can release the fluids  without ejaculation I am still failing with triggering wet orgasm in the end of the procedure. I guess I need more restraint here. Nevertheless the feeling afterward is quite different despite ejaculation. I feel calmer and more satisfied. I can post updates on the subject if you are interested 🙂

After two or three milking sessions I have observed that I am managing my arousal better. Still a bit difficult to operate the glass dildo despite abundant lubrication. Not that pleasurable as I originally thought. I have started to registering my ejaculations to measure the progress towards 8-day abstinence. 

I have changed the lube to silicone-based this time and it was much more comfortable but also much more triggering. Using the bigger end I ejaculated almost instantly. It was an unusual orgasm though as it was precede with my bottom shaking quite fast. Still, my performance is better, because instead of two days, I get 4 on average without ejaculation. It looks like a lot to practice is waiting for me.

I have just reached the milestone of eight days of abstinence. Both ejaculatory and orgasm abstinence. And all of that without prostate milking (I haven't had an opportunity). It was really hard but satisfying. My mood changes slightly better. Still have to practice prostate milking more to not to trigger orgasm. I have recently bought Aneros Prelude. Really helps with cleaning up. I like the idea of cleaning up gradually. Unfortunately this also leads to orgasm if not milked (I suppose).

The progress is huge now as I was able to milk more of the fluid when patient and not trying to hurry things. Still making mistakes but I can assure it is not that difficult when making regular but slow action. The other thing is mood imbalance. I was able to make it much less drastic a change in experience by supplementing electrolytes, low doses of vitamins after the fact. It might be that I get too dehydrated after the session and I am too slow to make up for loss of water and vital elements. Wish me luck, still no Super-Os ;D