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What would a extended orgasm response look like for males?

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Helghast
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@zentai 

What was the sign that you’d burnt out? Did the power go down? Did you fall apart? It was great times,so why quit thc?


   
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Zentai
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@helghast 

It was several things, I had no appetite, no drive for anything, I hurt all over from strong invols, I could not feel any positive emotions outside of sessions, I could not even get an erection. Complete burnout. I felt like a walking corpse. During the first cycle, it took only 3 months for me to see there was a problem, then I stopped. As soon as I felt better, I started again. Rinse and repeat, add COVID lockdowns... I have some notes and could probably get some timeline together, but I won't. Journal entries from that time are pretty bad. In the end, I told everything to a close friend and he helped me get through it. Alone I could have stopped, but I did not want to. This is the real scary part, there was no physical addiction, and you could even argue that there was no real mental addiction, either. Just my favorite thing in the world to do, all day, every day. 

I don't want to repeat stuff I said earlier because I know it gets tiresome, and I know that some guys use THC for their sessions and that it's great for them and they won't have issues. 

What I experienced is as close as externally triggered, automatic Super-Os as anyone can get, and it was absolutely wrong. We do not want this, and I don't wish it on other people. On the other hand, everyone should experience some good, clean, natural Super-Os in their life, this is an amazing gift.

I could clearly see some "Orgasmatron 3000" inventor say : "Proven to be 100% safe and non-addictive !" and they would technically not be lying. It's non addictive, but it fills every minute of free time you have. Basically your body being addicted to itself, it's the strangest thing ever. 


   
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firewire
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@zentai 

As far as infinite arousal goes, first note that I'm conflating arousal and pleasure. This may not be accurate, but it seems reasonable since the two typically co-vary. The level of arousal usually affects the intensity of perceived pleasure.

If you're familiar with Mindgasm, you've probably come across the concept of "the stairway." The basic idea is that you start in a baseline aroused state, then use "mental contractions" to increase that arousal. You do a mental contraction at a level 10 (highest possible strength of physical contractions), then increase it, which in turn increases the perceived pleasure. Then you increase contraction again in "steps" all the way to infinity. Whatever state you're in at that point, becomes the new baseline state for arousal and mental contraction strength. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. It's a psychological trick, and makes you perceive arousal as increasing infinitely.

The thing is, if arousal and pleasure could truly go to infinity, it'd break the human mind. If you look at a curve for exponential growth, you'll get the idea. The inverse is logarithmic growth, which asymptotically approaches some limit (whatever the base number for the logarithm is) but never reaches or crosses that limit. So growth increases over infinite time, but infinitesimally. I make a distinction between logarithmic growth and a "plateau," which implies that growth stops, that is the derivative with respect to time is zero.

I've had some very potent sessions, but nothing that makes me think exponential growth of pleasure or arousal. By Mayfield's definition I've had several Super-Os, but nothing transcendental that makes me feel "at one with the Universe" or anything. I would put that feeling in the same category as the Total Perspective Vortex from HHGTTG, something that would put me in a psych ward. However, I never feel like arousal is peaking or decreasing as long as I'm in the "O-Zone" - just growing infinitely towards some ceiling. Logarithmic growth seems like a good model for this sensation. Even if I relax and "let it all go," there's still a limit my subconscious mind will not cross. My goal now is to gradually increase that limit, but the rate of change seems to decrease the longer I practice. It's like working out a muscle. This is also consistent with logarithmic growth.

The same goes for hypnosis: I can always "drop deeper" but never to the point where it feels like there's no going back. Infinite depth would likely mean unconsciousness, which is not the goal. Mind break or unconsciousness are undesirable states to be in, after all. To me, "letting it all go" is a function of the primate brain, a suppression of inhibitions and the fear/pain response. I think the subconscious mind, corresponding to the "reptile brain," protects us in this altered state from mind break or unconsciousness. Even if it's possible to remove these limiters via hypnotic suggestion or being really, really high, I wouldn't want to tempt such forces, and highly recommend against it for anyone reading this thread.

It's quite fascinating, since this all ties into dynamics theory as well. A system of equations can exist in multiple states depending on the parameters. Each state is characterized by its phase portrait and the "attractors" that arise. I gave some examples: a stable focus is an attractor that the streamlines swirl around. A stable node is an attractor that the streamlines always point towards, but never actually reach (i.e. it's asymptotic behavior). My experience with Super-Os and the "O-Zone" phenomenon is consistent with the idea of a stable node. Lo and behold, the mathematical model from that paper has a stable node characterized by infinite (logarithmic) arousal growth. Even if it's just coincidence or personal bias, it does make me happy to see this.


   
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Zentai
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@firewire 

That's super interesting ! I may need to answer in more than one step, but here's the start. As always, even if I say "we" or "you", I can only speak for myself. I'm familiar with Mindgasm and erotic hypnosis in general, as well as exponential and logarithmic functions, so even if I don't discuss them in detail, I'm taking all of this into consideration. 

Posted by: @firewire

As far as infinite arousal goes, first note that I'm conflating arousal and pleasure. This may not be accurate, but it seems reasonable since the two typically co-vary. The level of arousal usually affects the intensity of perceived pleasure.

I wanted to make sure we were discussing the same thing. In calm seas you might not get super-high arousal, but there is still an increase in feelings. I think it make sense to talk about the intensity of the experience in general terms.. This covers both kinds of Os and also the emotional release stuff were you'll experience strong emotions that are not necessarily sexual or not even pleasurable. So whether you feel arousal, pleasure, sadness, deep connection to something or any other manifestation, the intensity can certainly go very high. Will it tend towards infinity ? Even if the potential is here, if there is a hard barrier, then it can only go that high, even if "it" wanted to go higher. 

We have to remember that this is in some way self contained, the brain acting on itself. I'd say intensity can go well above our wildest expectations, but does not need to go higher than what we can perceive. And we can imagine infinity well enough, without needing to actually experience it. We would not know the difference. For a model, maybe the distinction is not important, in reality, you can go from baseline to way too intense for comfort in 15 minutes. With a strong buildup, my experience is that intensity can double every 5 minutes, and at the 15 minutes mark, that's when I know if I'm going to overshoot and get into trouble. Sometimes I knew I had screwed up after even 10 minutes... So you really don't need to double the intensity all that much. 

I'm going to tie some things together, and we can further discuss the things I skipped a bit later. The vital points are these : 

Posted by: @firewire

The thing is, if arousal and pleasure could truly go to infinity, it'd break the human mind. If you look at a curve for exponential growth, you'll get the idea.

Posted by: @firewire

By Mayfield's definition I've had several Super-Os, but nothing transcendental that makes me feel "at one with the Universe" or anything. I would put that feeling in the same category as the Total Perspective Vortex from HHGTTG, something that would put me in a psych ward.

Posted by: @firewire

Even if I relax and "let it all go," there's still a limit my subconscious mind will not cross.

Posted by: @firewire

I think the subconscious mind, corresponding to the "reptile brain," protects us in this altered state from mind break or unconsciousness.

Basically, you can definitely go into potentially mind breaking states with Super-Os, but there are safeguards in place. If these are working right, then you won't experience anything you are not ready for. You'll get a flight-or-flight response and probably flee, and if you fight, then you were ready anyway, it's just a trick you're playing on yourself. Sober S-Os are probably the safest extreme sport, as long as you play by the rules of your mind.  

We have to accept that Super-Os are a way to get "pretty high", well beyond what you would experience in day-to-day life, but the mechanism that allows this also spares the safety mechanism. BUT (!)

Posted by: @firewire

Even if it's possible to remove these limiters via hypnotic suggestion or being really, really high, I wouldn't want to tempt such forces, and highly recommend against it for anyone reading this thread.

You don't want this, and if it happens, then you don't want to recreate this too often. The danger here is that if you have everything figured out, you might still retain a small safeguard, that you cannot remove by yourself. But something, say a hit of THC, can break down that barrier if it's a simple one.  

If it feels too good, then it is. The thing with Ego-death, connection to all living beings, removing all perceived barriers to your emotions or any other possible end destination is that it feels better, stronger, more real than reality. What are you going to do after you come back ? One thing I did (twice !) was ejaculating the Universe. Normally I would not share this for fear people would think I'm cuckoo for Coco Puffs, but I shared it already, so... Short version, there was the Void, and me, then the Big Bang came out my dick seemingly forever. I'm never going to top this, creatively speaking, in the real world. This was the essence of creativity and very painful. 

You do enough of this kind of shenanigans, life outside of Super-Os seems to be pretty fake, and this sounds like schizophrenia to me. In the west we'd call it Qi-Gong psychotic reaction, "a time limited mental-illness". This is in the DSM-IV yet I think most doctors would not take this very seriously... Just a hunch, I never asked one.  

In my case, what I think saved me is that I have a bad long-term memory, so these experiences fade in time to the point of not being a big deal, even if they (probably ?) feel like strong psychedelic trips. So I can say I'm pretty detached from all of this, even if some things met all definitions of being traumatic experiences. But I do have a strong sense of separation in my mind between "Super-O states" and "real life", even if surely, Super-Os happen in my mind, which lives in a real body in the real world. This is perhaps the last and truly solid barrier : imagination is real, the things we imagine, not so much.

In my opinion, trying to force these experiences is a huge gamble, and anyone saying : "hey, I want this for myself, it's going to be cool or awesome or heroic", is simply not understanding the ramifications. Mental stability is probably the most important thing a human can have, and we don't want to take a chance with it. 

Edit : This can also provide some insight, while we do not have a Total Perspective Vortex, we do have some data on this : Overview effect - Wikipedia

 

     


   
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firewire
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@zentai 

Thank you for your honesty and perspective. Reading your forum posts was a key part of my initial journey and helped me to "navigate the rough seas" so to speak. My best sessions (so far) have been with THC, but I view it as a way to augment what I can already accomplish with relaxation and self-hypnosis, rather than a panacea. I've learned how to relax deeply after years of practice, and subjectively the experience isn't too different from a mild "mind high." Now, my goal is to gradually lower THC dosage to the point that I don't need it to experience intense Super-Os, or else just use CBD instead. Moderation in everything, I guess.

I agree about the ego death part - should be avoided unless you're very centered and understand the risks. People shouldn't mess with Kundalini unless they know what they're doing and can reliably ground themselves if things go awry. The group of Aneros users who actively pursue this is likely in the minority, but it'd be prudent for every beginner to be aware of the dangers. The advanced users on this forum seem to do a good job of that. I'm skeptical of the spiritual aspects of Kundalini yoga and Taoism, but do think that there's a very real neurophysiological phenomenon that Western medicine does not understand fully, and which appears to "hack" the pleasure centers of the brain. This would correspond to a bifurcation in the neural system: a fundamental change in behavior that a person may not be able to come back from. Not a fun place to be in this modern age.

@cummingrainbows

As we discussed in DMs, I plan to monitor both HR and BP during sessions and evaluate their utility as PO predictors. HR is relatively easy to do - the challenge will be getting consistent BP readings. This may not be possible during rough seas orgasms - I would have to rig something up to take readings automatically on a timer, which is possible with a microcontroller, but probably not repeatable if we're trying to establish a protocol that others can follow. At first I will just do readings manually on an interval, and see if BP is actually a viable predictor for onset.

 


   
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Zentai
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Posted by: @firewire

 

Thank you for your honesty and perspective. Reading your forum posts was a key part of my initial journey and helped me to "navigate the rough seas" so to speak

Thanks !

I realize I rambled on a bit here. I guess I want this stuff to be out there so people can find it if they need it, and I feel like the more cryptic parts will make sense to someone who is already in that kind of situation. 

THC in very low doses should be safe-ish in most cases, there's definitely a level where it helps but you can still steer things without losing control, and this is the delicate balance you are looking for. I was at the point of weighting my cannabis before using it for a session and I still had some mishaps, although it's been a while since I triggered anything truly negative. The closer to 0 mg, the better. After a 2-3 weeks pause, 50-80 mg of dry herb @ 25% THC will get me very close to a S-O without any special preparation. This is also strongly strain-related, at least in my case. 

Regarding Kundalini or any enlightenment goal, while I don't think most guys are pursuing this when they start, there is always a bit of a risk of stumbling unto something, either from luck, being gifted in some way, or trying to force things a bit too much. From what I can tell, it's unlikely that this will happen without any warning, but you do have to interpret the warnings. My first ego death experience just felt like a very, very good Aneros session, I should have know better. I believe that some men will find a level of intensity that they are comfortable with and they'll pretty much stay there or just a tiny bit beyond and often revisit that same level without necessarily seeking more powerful sensations, so they'll be fairly safe, too. 

Posted by: @firewire

I'm skeptical of the spiritual aspects of Kundalini yoga and Taoism, but do think that there's a very real neurophysiological phenomenon that Western medicine does not understand fully, and which appears to "hack" the pleasure centers of the brain.

That was my stance for a long time, now I don't think there's a real answer. If someone is in any way spiritual, then this person will 100% find spiritually and meaning in the Super-O experience. Personally, I don't feel that anything is happening outside of my own brain and body, but I've certainly found personal growth and some meaning there. The experience itself is real enough, regardless of the exact mechanism(s). 

 

 


   
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 Nat
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Sorry..  Way too much text to catch up on.

I will add...  We have two systems that run our body - our brain and our nervous system.  When one is firing correctly, it signals to the other to fire the same.

I believe we can get to a point, where through repetition, we can train ourselves to have Super Os every time.  How would that occur?  You basically have to live like a machine - eating, drinking, and thinking the same things exactly all day.. everyday.  One false move would set you off from the repetition.

This is near impossible for us to do as humans.


   
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astronaut
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@zentai thank you for sharing your story. This thread is a gold!

Can you describe how does ego death feels for you during Aneros session?


   
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Zentai
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@astronaut 

I don't think I can describe this exactly. I'm not ever sure if I'm using the right terminology. The very first time something like this happened, I was still living with my folks, and I remember thinking that I was actually dying and that my parents would find my lifeless body in the morning. And I was perfectly okay with this. So maybe this was closer to a Near Death Experience. Anyway there is a *very* sudden transition between experiencing so much pleasure you wonder if you're going to make it through, and then complete stillness and calm, with the pleasure still there, maybe, but very far, and a complete absence of care, wanting or needing. Back then I could not interpret it as contentment, today I think it's strongly linked. 


   
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