Thoughts / Observations on Early Progress

I'm glad to hear it's working well for you!  I hope I don't sound like I'm saying that you were doing things wrong this whole time, everyone has different speeds of making progress, and I myself have been at this for 2.5 years with no Super-O. It seems like Zentai's coaching is really making a difference, if you're still waiting for involuntaries after so long then I'm sure you are the right candidate for the intensive coaching.  Hopefully you both will be able to quantify just what hangs people up, and post your findings so that all of us can progress at a more satisfying rate! 

I myself try to articulate in my own way other things I've read previously, because we have a lot of noobs asking the same questions, but also because there might be something in my own outlook that can help better communicate to those still searching for the path.  I'm sure that your own personal perspective with the journey you're on will be invaluable to others so don't hold back!  I'm looking forward to it all eagerly. 

Glad to hear things are moving. I’m sure @zentai will steer your ship to the very best waters. I build pictures in my head of people in forums/social media etc. where they aren’t actually seen. Is it weird when I think of zentai,I think mr myagi from karate kid?...hmmm. Ha!

”This is a lot more mental than I realized...”

One of the first things @zentai and I discussed is that prostate play is a lot more mental Thani realized. Is this the first time I have heard this? Of course not! I’m sure I’ve seen 20 times on the forum that you have to be in the right mindset. Does that mean I understood it? Not really.

My first Aneros was the Eupho Syn Classic. I had no idea which model I wanted, but I had a good idea that I wanted a Syn model. Soon after, I wanted a little variation, so I bought the Helix Trident, which I feel was a rational purchase. However, after some time of being frustrated at not feeling pleasure, I went to the forum, read some people’s posts about having much better feelings with the MGX than the Helix. Naturally, I went and bought an MGX, thinking it was the magic bullet. It didn’t give me the jump in progress I was looking for. This became a pattern. Next time, I thought “maybe I need some vibration”, so I bought a Calexotics Eclipse vibrating prostate massager. Then, I thought, “Hey, the Progasm is pretty big...maybe I need to be filled up more”, so I made another purchase. The last time, it was “Hmmm, everybody likes the Peridise, maybe it will get me over the hump.” The first time with these new toys was always pretty exciting, but it never gave me what I wanted.

There isn’t a magic toy that is going to get you there. I’m learning that mindset IS important and that you are doing this with your own body, with a nice assist from the Aneros. The thing is, we have all read that we need to up our mental game to succeed, but the reason we don’t do it is because it is hard. Given the choice between doing the hard work of getting your mind right or running down to the local sex store on a wing and a prayer to buy the next magic bullet, the latter is a lot easier for us to do.

With Zentai’s help, I was able to accept that I need to do the mental work to get things going. It is a lot easier to disregard a random forum post than ignoring someone who is putting in quality time and effort to help you. So, I decided to put on my big boy pants, make a serious attempt to up my mental game, and truly believe that I am giving myself pleasure with an assist from the toy, rather than the toy doing all the work.

Posted by: @helghast

Glad to hear things are moving. I’m sure @zentai will steer your ship to the very best waters. I build pictures in my head of people in forums/social media etc. where they aren’t actually seen. Is it weird when I think of zentai,I think mr myagi from karate kid?...hmmm. Ha!

Haha, I'm not sure I needed the picture of Pat Morita in a skin-tight zentai suit.  Then again before I knew what that was, I thought his name was a play on Hentai and Zen Buddhism.  So now picture Mr. Miyagi wearing a skintight suit being penetrated by a tentacle monster...and being very calm about it.  We should draw him a special avatar! 😉

Also I'm sure this is just the fuel you needed for your future sessions...

Posted by: @faith-manages

I'm glad to hear it's working well for you!  I hope I don't sound like I'm saying that you were doing things wrong this whole time, everyone has different speeds of making progress, and I myself have been at this for 2.5 years with no Super-O. It seems like Zentai's coaching is really making a difference, if you're still waiting for involuntaries after so long then I'm sure you are the right candidate for the intensive coaching.  Hopefully you both will be able to quantify just what hangs people up, and post your findings so that all of us can progress at a more satisfying rate! 

I myself try to articulate in my own way other things I've read previously, because we have a lot of noobs asking the same questions, but also because there might be something in my own outlook that can help better communicate to those still searching for the path.  I'm sure that your own personal perspective with the journey you're on will be invaluable to others so don't hold back!  I'm looking forward to it all eagerly. 

Thanks for the kind words! Even if you won’t say it, I will...I was probably doing things wrong this whole time...hahahaha! I am already enjoying creating this thread and I agree with you, everyone’s own personal perspective can make a difference with someone.

Posted by: @helghast

Glad to hear things are moving. I’m sure @zentai will steer your ship to the very best waters. I build pictures in my head of people in forums/social media etc. where they aren’t actually seen. Is it weird when I think of zentai,I think mr myagi from karate kid?...hmmm. Ha!

Lol! I think of @zentai as younger than Mr. Myagi, but I can see the resemblance. Does that make me Ralph Macchio? 

@7sdoor you are definitely Daniel-San.  Wax on/wax off that lubricant! 

I can relate to your struggle, because I myself can have the same pitfall of thinking the toy I don't have will be the one to get me there.  And after buying 4 toys plus winning one in one of the contests I will say that the one I started with (the Helix) still gives me the best results and I didn't really need the others, except to learn that I didn't need them.  Still I keep hoping that they'll give me a different experience so I pull them out from time to time. 

So the thing is...how do you get the mental side?  I'm one of those people whose mind is constantly wandering and I've gotten some advice that I try to follow but I can tell that sometimes my mind just isn't in it.  I suppose that the Aneros has been great in that it forces me to meditate, regulate my breathing, calm my mind, things like that.  I hope that it helps with progress too, I've certainly read it enough times!  I'm finding relaxation to be the key. 

If you know/learn what your hangups are that's great and a lot of help.  I also have a tendency to clench hard on my PC muscles by reflex and I'm sure this goes back years.  But it's something I'm constantly fighting in sessions and when I can relax sufficiently the sessions will get better, it's how I discovered involuntaries, etc. 

Posted by: @7sdoor

”This is a lot more mental than I realized...” ...There isn’t a magic toy that is going to get you there. I’m learning that mindset IS important and that you are doing this with your own body, with a nice assist from the Aneros.

I am happy to hear you are recognizing the powerful effect your mind has in this process. This is something I have repeatedly tried to impress upon new users for many years on this forum. I have often referred people to @rook 's thread Whole Body/Whole Mind - the mental side & @SteelColdiron 's thread Aneros: The Essential Mind State as reminders into the mental aspect of this practice.

I hope @Zentai 's tutoring continues to accelerate your progress so you, too, may one day tutor some young grasshopper into the prostate multi-orgasmic world.

Good Vibes to You!

Posted by: @rumel

I am happy to hear you are recognizing the powerful effect your mind has in this process. This is something I have repeatedly tried to impress upon new users for many years on this forum. I have often referred people to @rook 's thread Whole Body/Whole Mind - the mental side & @SteelColdiron 's thread Aneros: The Essential Mind State as reminders into the mental aspect of this practice.

I hope @Zentai 's tutoring continues to accelerate your progress so you, too, may one day tutor some young grasshopper into the prostate multi-orgasmic world.

Good Vibes to You!

Thanks @rumel! That would be awesome to someday be able to tutor a young grasshopper. Before this week, I wouldn’t have thought that was possible, but I am starting to believe.

Posted by: @7sdoor

...I am starting to believe.

Belief is the basis of all personal reality.

Good Vibes to You!

”Giving your mind something to do...” 

@faith-manages, you are leading me right into my next point! I can’t take all the credit for this one because this comes from @zentai ’s awesome post of Post here if you are “really” stuck. He talks about building a mindscape to keep your brain busy by giving it something to do. I tried doing this in some of my sessions, but it’s still hard for me to keep with visualizations for a long time. My mind tends to wander as well.

However, during my sessions this week, I was thinking about how I would summarize my session to Zentai. It wasn’t stressful thinking, it was a very relaxed scanning of my body and cataloging exactly what I was feeling. I gave my brain something to do and it worked really nicely! 

In the past, my brain would be saying “dang it, why am I not feeling more pleasure?” or “am I kegeling hard enough...KEGEL HARDER!” or “maybe if I flop over on my stomach I will get some better feelings.” Looking back, this all feels very unproductive. Now, I feel like it is all a patient tour of my body “what am I feeling in my legs right now?”, “what about my perineum, or my nipples, or my head?”, “what happens if I touch here?” I was just cataloging everything and thinking about how I would write it up later.  

As I progress, I may want my brain to get into more erotic visualizations and move toward a more zen place, but for now, this has been working for me. So, I would encourage people to try this during a session. Even if you don’t have a coach or someone to talk to about your experience, think about how you would describe the experience to someone in great detail. Then, write it all down so you can remember it later. I’ll check in later with another thought.

Hey I'm little late to the party! To those who think I'm strapped in a skin tight suit 24/7, if you dig up the "Origin of your username thread", you'll see that reality is unfortunately not that great hahaha... 

I've said before that everything you need to succeed has already been written before a hundred times, so in my mind it's about finding a format or presentation style that works for you. My best guess it's that's one of the main hurdles for some people, they read the words but they don't resonate for some reason, so even with everyone having access to the same info, results will vary wildly.

I was pretty stubborn at some point because I had good results using unconventional methods, so I thought I was beating the system in some way and didn't need to do the belly breathing stuff or the whole deep relaxation thing I was always reading about, but one day I hit a wall and discovered that I was not special, and that I needed to work on the fundamentals like everybody else. The sooner you get that, the better in my opinion. 

@7sdoor I'm sure in time you'll make enough progress to help others, you're on the right track! 

@rumel I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you wish you could reach out thought the screen and poke some noobs in the sternum until they get it, I know I do. Your patience is legendary! 

Posted by: @zentai

@rumel I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you wish you could reach out thought the screen and poke some noobs in the sternum until they get it, I know I do. Your patience is legendary!

Well...I'm not really desirous of physical violence such as poking anyone but sometimes.... I mainly hope I can help other men discover the richness of their body and mind that this Aneros journey has provided to me.

Good Vibes to You!

“Be gentle with the PC muscles...”

This is something I just started trying this week and I don’t know if it is a “forever” thing or a “right now” thing for me. You hear a lot of talk about strengthening PC muscles and doing your kegels to get better pleasure in your sessions. So, in a session, I was typically under the assumption that the harder you clench, the more the toy will activate the prostate, and the better results you will get. I haven’t necessarily found this to be true, but it’s very possible that a few well-timed PC clenches could take you to another dimension. I’m going to defer to the more experienced guys on this one.

However, this week I have gone with the approach of starting my sessions with the lightest PC clenches and releases that I could possibly do. Just an extremely subtle back and forth movement while focusing on the pleasure in that area. In Monday’s session, I found this to be very relaxing and then in yesterday’s session, I noticed a distinct increase in pleasure in the anal/perineal region. Seems like the “less is more” approach could work here.

@faith-manages No,no,no...I’ve gotten this far without erotic visions of zentai,ima stick to what I know lol.

Interesting you mentioned hard clenching,I’ve always found that to wreck sessions. I find lifting the whole pelvic floor just a little,or applying pressure as I see it,and then playing with moderate contractions yielded the best results. 

One of the biggest keys to unlocking the puzzle I think,is learning how to manipulate the pc hammock at different points and gaining control over those independently. The deep transverse muscles that come in from the sides of the perineum are very helpful to pick up. 

I had a little A-Less earlier,and although I got to my previous highs,this was different,a deeper richer pleasure. Think I’m finally starting to piece it all together. Also starting to get up there with no nipple play,if that can saved until orgasm is approaching,then a tweak of the nipples sends one over the edge.

Its all fun and games!

Posted by: @rumel

I am happy to hear you are recognizing the powerful effect your mind has in this process. This is something I have repeatedly tried to impress upon new users for many years on this forum. I have often referred people to @rook 's thread Whole Body/Whole Mind - the mental side & @SteelColdiron 's thread Aneros: The Essential Mind State as reminders into the mental aspect of this practice.

I hope @Zentai 's tutoring continues to accelerate your progress so you, too, may one day tutor some young grasshopper into the prostate multi-orgasmic world.

Good Vibes to You!

Ah Rumel, the other Mr. Miyagi.  One can be Pat Morita, the other is Jackie Chan. 

Thanks for reminding me of these threads, I think it's time I reread them! 

“Make sure to reflect on the entire session when you are done. Don’t fall into the recency bias...”

This one comes right out of today’s session. I was pretty excited for today’s ride. I found a new binaural audio and was ready to go. I started out by standing naked in front of the mirror and played with my nipples until I primed the pump and got some precum flowing. I could also feel some faint pleasure waves rolling through my legs. I was aroused to start this session!

In the first 20 minutes, I could tell my body was going to work. I don’t remember if I was doing any kegels, maybe a few light ones, but I felt relaxed, very aroused, and the binaurals were sounding great! In this 20-minute span, I could tell my brain was being taken away a little. I wasn’t able to focus clinically on the feelings in my body because I think I was heading toward a zen state. I distinctly noticed 6 new/notable things going on:

1) I was starting to feel some very faint waves in my abdominal area.

2) My erection was definitely getting harder than it was on Wednesday.

3) I was feeling more tingling pleasure in the anal/perineal area.

4) I had multiple faint electric zings to my left nipple.

5) I could feel more sensation internally with the Helix movement.

6) I had an overall feeling of arousal and building toward something.

Then, at about the 20-minute mark, my hips/pelvis started rumbling and I lost all sense of arousal/zen/pleasure. I could feel some shakes, but I was no longer turned on. I lost any sort of electrical/tingling feeling and the binaurals sounded annoying and distracting, rather than arousing.

This is when I started to spiral. I tried to conjure up some fantasies, but it just felt forced. I tried rubbing my nipples more to get that feeling back. I used more force on my PC muscles to see if that would do something...even though I advised against this yesterday, haha! I even got up to empty my bladder, returned to a different position and changed to a different binaural audio. Good grief, this is like a manual of what not to do in an Aneros session!

After the full hour, I got up and cleaned up. I was really disappointed in the session and how it ended. I was falling victim to recency bias, as in only remembering the last 40 minutes. On a scale of 1-10, I was giving this session a “3”. But a funny thing happened...as time went on, I started to reflect on all the things that happened in the session. I started to feel better about it and changed today’s rating to a “6”. Then, I started writing my detailed summary to Zentai and I started thinking, “you know what, I did some good things here!” So, I bumped the rating up to a “7”. 

We have to be encouraged to move forward, right? So, make sure to look back at the entire session, embrace all the good things that happened, and learn to laugh at yourself in the moments when you spiraled out of control.

@7sdoor

That's a manual of "things I tried but did not work as good as I thought..." Part of the learning curve, you almost have to try everything once, as long as you're learning new things, that's great.

And the rating thing is very contextual, should you rate or not rate, that's up to each individual, I don't do it now or it's very general, but I'd be lying if I said I never did the "6.5/10 or 7.0/10 ?" dance. It's just a tool that you might replace with a better one later, but until then, it's a good way to see where you stand. But start thinking right now about what you will do with your first 11/10, you can't just "carry the one" hehe, you'll have to recalibrate the whole thing. Then you won't really need it...

Great Week #1, I think even greater things are on the horizon! 

@7sdoor another thing you might consider is not whether the entire session rates getting judged but rather if just a part of it does.  For instance my session on Thursday I think I would categorize it as lasting too long; if I'm having a great time I sometimes don't want to quit when I'm ahead!  I had a great session with my Helix Syn Trident for about 45min and after a short break went for the Progasm Jr. with less-than-stellar results.  The entire session I might rank as a 6 but the first half was definitely closer to 8 or 9.  I guess with all the prep work I do I'd feel like I need to go on as long as I can, perhaps not the case, though in your situation 20min does feel like a premature ending to a session...

@faith-manages

That’s a really good point, we don’t have to rate the “not as great” parts. It definitely is a learning process. That 20 minutes yesterday was a really new experience for me and I kept thinking I could get back there a second time. You never really know until you try. Also, as I get better than this, I may develop an ability to bring back the good feelings.

I have not yet had much luck with switching toys in the middle of a session, but I have tried it several times before and I guess you never know which particular day it might work and bring you to a new level.

Posted by: @7sdoor

I kept thinking I could get back there a second time.

As far as I can tell from my journey, there may be no bigger hurdle one can build than wanting to get back anywhere a second time.

Why do we call it a journey? It‘s a discovery to „places mankind has never seen before“ and NOT returning to anything already known. The best is yet to come means it did NOT happen already.

Instead we have to leave our well known pathways as well as just lately discovered places. Even if the first hundred yards riding your bike felt awesome, ask your inner child! You never wanted to repeat them, right? What about driving down a hill now, trying a first curve? ...

„Look, Mom! Without hands!“
(On that bike, guys, not naked at home with your Aneros in your bum! ;-))

That‘s the spirit I‘m talking about when suggesting to keep playful and noisy. 

My sessions are hardly „hey, give me again what felt good last time“,

they likely are - eyes wide open - „what comes next, hey, gland, surprise me!“

Only my 2 cts here - from the side line - coach, @zentai, or was it sensei(?), please take over! 😉

Cheers, Mart

@sowithoutaneros

Always fun to read your posts, there's a touch of whimsical thinking and great curiosity in them, they just feel good to read. Thank you for this!

Another viewpoint, there is this camping spot I really like and return to each summer. Of all the places I could be, I am at that camping spot. And each year there is this familiar place, but the adventures are all different. So you might not want to have the same experience twice, but may want to recapture part of it, the setting, or the time, or the place, that made it all happen the last time.

Lots of ways to see this, that will resonate with various people in different ways. And don't worry about spoiling the student with different viewpoints, he still has to decide for himself what works best for him, regardless of what I say.

@Zentai, I'd say if we merge both viewpoints, they'd match perfectly! Let's take that bike with us to that camping spot. 🙂

Well, if I run with this metaphor, I took my bike to a very nice camp site yesterday. I started my session laying on the floor with my knees bent and feet flat on the floor. I inserted the Helix, relaxed and did some light kegels. For about the first 20 minutes, I felt very little sensation and thought I might be heading for a dud session. Then, I made a slight modification...

I moved so that I was still laying on the floor, but rested my legs up on the couch. I started working my nipples in very gentle circles. I love using a feather light touch on my nipples. All of a sudden, I could feel pleasure waves starting in my pelvis. I continued to work my nipples and then I felt it...this incredible pleasure wave that pushed right up through my cock from the inside. It felt amazing! I was getting this supercharged erection and against my better judgment, I had to take a peak. I opened my eyes to look at my cock, which decreased the intensity of the feeling, but it was still there.

This happened maybe 2 or 3 more times during the session and I got some pretty powerful cock bouncing too. For the rest of the session, I felt pleasure waves running through my entire body. I have never felt anything like this before. Still looking to build that feeling into a mini O, but I have finally found a bike path worth exploring!

Had a great ending to Week 2!

I rode the Helix in a session on Friday. I started on my back on the floor with my legs up in the couch. This seems to be a good starting position for me these days. I did some kegels and started touching my body all over. The nipples are always a good spot for me, but I also explored my legs abdomen, and the sides of my torso. I was getting more movement from the Helix and it started to feel involuntary with a lot of cock bouncing movement. I had a lot of tingling pleasure flowing through my body. This led to more tensing of my body, arching my back, etc.

I did this for about an hour, enjoying the pleasure. I decided to end the session and started to get up, but I got to my hands and knees and decided to play with the all fours position for a little bit. I rocked around, gyrated my hips, and moved the Helix in and out with my PC muscles. I started to feel some pleasure build up. It felt like an urge to pee, but it was really nice and pleasurable. I started to leak some drips of thick, stringy precum. I got on my elbows and reached up to play with my nipples...this really ramped things up. The pleasure was good and I started getting vocal. Then, one of the times I touched my nipples, it felt almost orgasmic for a second or two. I’m not sure if this was a mini O, but it felt incredible! These new feelings are wonderful and fun...on to Week 3!

Hey if you can just switch your perspective to: "I'm pretty sure this was a mini-o and it felt incredible" that's going to be a big step. And what would feel "incredibly pleasurable" if you could go from 2 seconds to 20 seconds to 200 seconds and beyond... wonder how you would call this thing. Is a mini-o just a super-o "seed"? 

Just asking, hehe! 

Yes! I love the idea of the mini O being a Super O seed!

I have this visualization of a prostate orgasm like pushing a rock up a hill. You start getting good feelings and the mini O is like getting some good running momentum up the hill. Then, once your body gets good enough at this, you get enough momentum to push the rock over the top of the hill and it rolls down into a Super O.

Milestone - First Mini Os!

It’s been about 3 weeks since we started this coaching experiment and I am happy to report that I took the next step in the staircase, the next path on this journey, the next campsite in this large campground...whatever metaphor you want to use.

I had a session yesterday with the Helix and started putting together a lot of stuff that I have learned. I was more active with my PC muscles in getting the Helix to move more and actually “massage” my prostrate. I was able to start some involuntaries in what I would call a “semiautomatic” state. I was consciously holding a contraction at about 50-75%, which induced this involuntary fluttering of my PC muscles. I simply tried to lay there, relax, and enjoy the movement.

After about 20 minutes, I started to feel some body movements, some shakes and gentle swaying of my legs. At about the 50-minute mark, I could feel something building up in my body. I tried to let go, let my body move around, and went faster on my nipples. All of a sudden, my whole body convulsed and shook for about 10 seconds. My legs went straight up in the air. I didn’t feel any sensation or pleasure in my penis/prostate/perineal area, but my body was shaking and it felt good! After this 10 seconds, I felt this coming down feeling, like a faint wash of hormones flowing in my body, like you might feel after a traditional orgasm. I’m going to say that was my first mini O...woo hoo!!

I continued on and could still feel shakes and convulsions in my body. I rode this for another 5 minutes and then my whole body started to shake again, this time a little longer, maybe for 15 seconds. Still no pelvic pleasure, but really fun! After this second mini O, my body went quiet, no more shakes or convulsions. I laid there for another 20 minutes to see if anything would start up again. It didn’t...my body was probably done at this point. 

What a wonderful session! I know there is so much more to experience, but this was a beautiful step and I can’t wait for what the future holds.

Posted by: @7sdoor

like pushing a rock up a hill

@7sdoor, your picture might be misleading, because it suggests there were certain efforts you have to cope with for specific results, what would be the opposite of letting go and let the bliss find you. 

After all congratulations and good vibes!

Mart

P.S. 

My most helpful envisions so far:

• Lying on a raft hovering on a river and floating with the stream, sometimes struggling with getting entangled with the bank slopes, sometimes finding pure tranquility in the middle of that stream, sometimes shooting rapids or even waterfalls.
• Lying on a surf board waiting for and finally catching the right orgasmic wave to take me along.
• Stepped out with one foot on my wind surfing board waiting for the right gust of wind to lift me up.
• Flying like an eagle on up winds.

Have a pleasureful journey!

Mart