strung along?

Hello Nat and Forum Members,

We appreciate all of your thoughts. Nat, you've made a ton of different points throughout this thread and we'll try to hit most of them.

Our guarantee policy is the only one of its kind in the industry that we are aware of. As Darwin writes, it really is unheard of.

There is no secondary market for our products. If you return your MGX for a refund we cannot turn around and sell it to another someone else for 90% of it's value like you can with golf clubs. We can't restock it and sell it again. Returned items come back to us and go straight into the garbage can but not before we get the returner's comments and suggestions that we can use to make future improvements. The items are a loss to us, but the feedback we get is invaluable. The Helix, Maximus, Eupho and Progasm were all born out of feedback from our customers.

Consider how we can have any sort of guarantee policy at all. The answer is that we believe in our products. We believe they are the best in the world, the best in a market which we created. We think our customers believe in our products. The feedback we get backs up this sentiment. Our incidence of returns is extremely low. The positive feedback we get from our customers greatly outnumbers the negative.

We understand that prostate massage is not "mainstream" and therefore is something new that most men are jumping into. The 90-day guarantee policy hopefully provides a sense of security for our customers because they are trying something very new and different, but we can only offer this policy because of the ongoing success our customers have.
While we strive for a 100% success rate for every customer and every product, for reasons anatomical, physical, psychological or a combination thereof, for some men it just doesn't happen. For those that have tried, tried, tried and have gotten nowhere, the guarantee policy provides what we consider to be a solid amount of time to make some progress and is a good point for one to come to a decision whether he wants to continue on the journey or stop.

Hopefully, during the 90 days, a new user will experience great sensations right off the bat, gradually make progress, or feel sparks and changes that represent something good to come that encourage him to continue the journey. At a minimum, if used as plug-and-play, the Aneros undoubtably enhances a traditional penile orgasm. If after this period nothing happens, we happily accept the product for a refund according to our policy if that is what the customer wishes to do.

We really don't completely grasp the whole "strung along" point you have been trying to make it. In your time here on the forum you have received nothing but honest encouragement from the other forum members. If the result of all this help the community has provided you is for you to feel "strung along" we really don't know what to tell you.

You say you have spent hundreds of dollars on our products. This would suggest that you have 3-4 models which is a large number. I don't think anyone on the forum would suggest for you to go out and buy a bunch of models to find one that works for you. No one at the company would suggest for you to go out and buy a bunch of models either. We question why would you spend hundreds of dollars when you felt like you weren't getting support from the company and at the same time felt like you were strung along by the community.

You made a great choice in the Helix as your first model and really this is the only model you need. Based on skimming some of your past posts we do see that you made some progress which is a great sign. You may just be in for a longer journey than you expected or had hoped like Love Is.

The reason why we have spent time and effort to setup the forum, wiki, blogs, chat, Aneros Me, (failed) Bee-Line is that we recognize the power of *this* very special community. We want to create as many useful ways as possible for everyone here to share their experiences. What better way to hear and learn about our products than from other users? Certainly hearing about other users' experiences, positive or negative, is preferable to any "corporate speak" coming from us, right?

Now if you felt that you did not get enough or the right support from our company at any point in time, this is an entirely different issue and needs to be addressed by our team. Customer service is extremely important to us. Please forward any emails that you felt did receive not satisfactory responses to @aneros.com">websupport@aneros.com. We'll go back and try to pull any communications between us and you to see if we had a lapse in our customer support. So again, if we failed to address your "individual instance" of failure, we'd love the opportunity to try to help. Please note we are available via phone as well. Frankly, the advice and encouragement you get here is outstanding and would be on par with what we could provide you, so don't overlook that.

As far as our marketing goes, there is always room for improvement. We actually have over the years toned down the hype in our language significantly. We feel on a whole, it is fairly balanced. For example, this is the text from our "Super-O" page in the Learning Center:

"Many men can achieve the “Super-O” on the first use of the Aneros. For others, it will take patience, relaxation, and practice — months, sometimes even more than a year. This is what we call “the path to the Super-O.” During this time the man will become more in tune with his body and the Aneros. And the problem for some is that the more the man concentrates and wants to force the “Super-O” to happen, it becomes even more elusive. For many men totally giving in to themselves and the sensations they are feeling, giving up the desire to control their sensations allows them to break through."

We do want people who visit the site to be excited about our products. We choose to do this via the customer testimonials and not from juiced up marketing language.

As far as the possible tens of thousands of users who have had no success at all, you are right, they could be out there, but we doubt it. Again, we have a very low rate of return, and in the age of the internet, if you feel like you are getting ripped off, it is incredibly easy to make your feelings known publicly for everyone to see, and to do so completely anonymously. If our products were garbage, then you would see tons of people here posting about their negative experiences. Do a Google search and you'll find generally the same thing on independent forums. Search on Aneros reviews and positive ones greatly outweigh the negatives, in our opinion, for good reason.

Some more points:

1. Product testers - we have a core group of testers and they tend to be experienced. We also have had novice testers as well and plan to use novices in the future. We tend to lean on the more experienced testers because they are able to articulate about the nuances of the product and describe in great detail the most minute sensations they feel which can lead to tweaks to our designs. We cannot get this same kind of feedback from novice users.

2. Creating products for experienced users - your thought process is foreign to us here. All of our community tools were created to help everyone achieve success with our products. Don't mistake us not jumping in on every thread on the forum for lack of compassion. This forum and the wiki are by the community, for the community. Again for your specific case, we need to take a look at what you perceived to be a lack of support and see how we can help.

We have products that are great for beginners - the SGX, MGX and Helix have long track records for being excellent starter models, especially the Helix and MGX (hence they are our bestsellers). Our most recent products have been on the advanced side because they've filled holes in our product line up. We don't recommend the Vice for beginners because the vibrations will mask the subtle sensations you should feel during the rewiring process. The Tempo came largely due to the enthusiasm of those here on the forum who love the Peridise but wanted a more weighted feel. So while we will never rule out creating more "beginner" products we feel like the Helix and MGX do a great job of covering this customer segment.

3. Helixer - you are obviously not up to speed with his situation. We have communicated *extensively* with him about why the way he crafts his opinions more than his opinions themselves turn off the other members. Extensively. Helixer is actually one of our biggest fans but ultimately, could not express himself in a way that adhered to the forum guidelines. He would have been banned from many other forums long before he was banned here.

So Nat, we hope this post addresses some of your concerns. We doubt you will agree with all of it, but at least you know where we are coming from. While we design and hope for 100% success for all our customers, we aren't selling DVDs or clock radios. Our products are precisely anatomically designed but it is the combination of slight variations - anatomical, physical state, mental state - which don't allow us to tell you exactly how to have a breakthrough. If we knew all the mysteries of rewiring and the Super-O, we'd publish the definitive step-by-step guide to reaching it. Unfortunately, we don't know all the mysteries.

However, we do feel like we have provided a framework with our community tools that provide you and every other user the most honest and authentic information possible to be successful with the Aneros. In your specific case, because you did experience sensations, we still have hope that a breakthrough is in your future.

thanks,
Aneros Support

Nat, one thing - we wish we had read your Final Plea thread earlier, just read it now. Around this time or actually before you plunked down more money for the Eupho, Progasm and Peridise would have been a good time for you to communicate directly with us. Note there have been times in the past and there likely will be in the future when we are not actively reading what is going on here. Please fwd your past email communications with us to @aneros.com">websupport@aneros.com.

I first want to thank support for responding to this thread. In order to better address the post, I am going to use quotes.

Our incidence of returns is extremely low. The positive feedback we get from our customers greatly outnumbers the negative.

I think the point I was trying to get at was the dedication factor between satisfied and unsatisfied customers. I myself am a very vocal individual. Therefore, if I really like a product, I am going to tell people. If I really dislike a product, I will do the same. However, in reality most people arent that way. To me atleast, it seems very logical that a company is going to hear more positives than negatives, because those that are enthusiastic about the product are the ones most willing to discuss it. Where as those that are frustrated dont want to participate and stress themselves out further. In the case of Aneros, it could very well be a money situation such as mine, where they are frustrated they wasted so much money. In other cases it could be as other members have mentioned before, being that when you see thread after thread of people having major milestone success, you push even harder.

I guess my question would than be, since the return rate is low, how many of those potential returns may not happen because : A) the user bought the item in a store and cannot return it, or B) other members told them the process takes longer than 90 days and now no longer have a warranty? Obviously no one can answer that, but this is the type of market research that companies need to do with their products if they are part of such a unique niche market like Aneros is.

For those that have tried, tried, tried and have gotten nowhere, the guarantee policy provides what we consider to be a solid amount of time to make some progress and is a good point for one to come to a decision whether he wants to continue on the journey or stop.

As someone who is in development for a social media business, the way that consumers buy products these days is not traditional. We are more likely to be loyal to a product if those around us are loyal to a product. Therefore, think about how these forums work. We have a community here of successful users and enthusiasts for the Aneros product. I have seen many times before, even with myself, situations where members have said "Help, I hit a roadblock". In response, more successful users will say "Give it time, put the model away for a few weeks and come back to it". If this is the case (and from my personal knowledge of the forums, decent advice to members), how is the struggling user supposed to accurately make the decision to stop or not? I know if I had posted a thread about not having success a week after getting the product and received a bunch of responses about how I should quit and one response saying I shouldnt, chances are I would be swayed to quit. This forum acts the opposite way. Because we have so many members here with high levels of success, they are going to encourage struggling users to continue. Keeping in mind how social product buying and maintaining is these days, how much can Aneros as a product line further support struggling users, when in fact a warranty is no longer in place? As a company, if you havent thought of this before, maybe it is a good question to ask if you are looking to further develop the website, chat, or forums.

We really don't completely grasp the whole "strung along" point you have been trying to make

The thread title was created by whomever moved the post, not me. In other words, I dont feel as though I have been strung along as much as I feel I have been misinformed. I feel that for every great thing that can be said about any product, there is an opposite side. Aside from members encouraging other members to continue on their journey, no one ever gets the chance to express the other side. I know in the past when I have seen it, other more experienced members come out of the wood work only to take jabs at the member, claiming they are either trying to start trouble, or that the product isnt working because of them and not the product. In a lot of cases, because Aneros is partly a psychological thing, that might be true. However, I shake my head at the concept that a piece of plastic that someone created is always right, but a living, breathing, human being is always wrong. I know that sounds a bit too dramatic, but some members go to that extreme. I hate to pick on anyone, but look at the responses of imp and Bishop. One feels this discussion is only here to complain, while the other wants the thread locked because he feels personally that the thread is going nowhere. Some people cant handle different perspectives, making those that want to give those perspectives afraid to speak out, in the end making the community all one sided. Again, this is a different effect of social consumerism, as I talked about earlier in this post. If companies are going to go the social route (as they should), they need to realize this and allow debates such as this one to occur.

We question why would you spend hundreds of dollars when you felt like you weren't getting support from the company and at the same time felt like you were strung along by the community.

My reasons for using Aneros to begin with are different than those of most members. I did not buy it for health, nor did I buy it is a sex toy. I really dont want to discuss it, because it is a very personal issue. Why I stuck around had to do with a few things. When using a new product that isnt mainstream, there is always a bit of doubt in your mind as to if you are using the product correctly. So in my journey of about 3 years, I wanted to make sure that I exhausted my resources. I sat in member chats going through different ways I could approach a session, I took breaks, consulted the wiki, did Rumels audio recording sessions, and yes.. even tried different models. Now, whether you believe me or not, members did tell me that some models work for some people and not others. I was also told that the movement or placement of one model over another effects everyones body different, meaning a member might always hit a brick wall if they plug away at one model. In the case of the Peridise, I was told that it is a good model for struggling users because you can use it without being in a traditional session, getting your body used to the comfort levels, movements, and sensations. Now, exactly what members told me this and when are sketchy, seeing as most of my participation in the community happened in chats.

Customer service is extremely important to us. Please forward any emails that you felt did receive not satisfactory responses to @aneros.com">websupport@aneros.com. We'll go back and try to pull any communications between us and you to see if we had a lapse in our customer support.

With all due respect, you honesty feel that I would have saved sent e mails from a bit over a year ago?

So again, if we failed to address your "individual instance" of failure, we'd love the opportunity to try to help.

I am interested to know how you plan to help, seeing as though I have tried different models, did Rumels audio sessions, took on a lot of the advice of members, and the wiki. What else havent we touched on? If so I would gladly work with you on this. Again, I am not saying all this to start trouble. I do want to support the product and get it to work. I just feel the money has been a waste.

2. Creating products for experienced users - your thought process is foreign to us here.

You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success. Sure, there is a point to where you need to move on and introduce new products, but you also need to communicate with those having trouble with existing products with just as much enthusiasm as you do with new products. This is why product labs for new concepts like Aneros have to be huge. I would question, while you have people sitting in the lab creating new models, do you have people sitting in the lab with old product trying to figure out what might be causing a lack of success for some users? The same goes for the Peridise. You guys are focused on the creation of a steel one, when a lot of use cant begin to get consistent with the original.

I do have comments on your product tester system, but I think I will leave that for e mail communication.

Thank again.

Nat,

I've been following this thread with interest since it covers a wide range of user satisfaction issues and related marketing tactics. At this point, I'm speculating that you would be less unhappy if in your next Aneros session you had a breakthrough, however you choose to define that.

But now I'm curious. What would it take to make you a "happy camper?" All your money refunded? Revised wording on the product packaging to inform potential buyers that some users may never achieve satisfactory results? An apology from Aneros management? An apology from certain Forum members? All of the above?

Sincerely,

Dave

Tens,

As you said, short of Nat making a total breakthrough I suspect that there is nothing that will satisfy him at this point. But since he is no longer using or "supporting" the product it's unlikely to happen. Just an observation, but every time that someone answers one of his concerns he either ignores it or states that it isn't good enough. Support has already explained to him that if a large population of dissatisfied users existed they would be conspicuously all over the internet. This is not the case. My impression of what he is saying now is, so long as there is one dissatisfied user HIH has an obligation to completely change their business model. I wish him all the luck in the world with his own business enterprise following a notion like that.

From my perspective, as a business owner, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with HIH/Aneros business model, I would not change a thing!

All of that said, I feel that this thread should remain open. Nat has not been abusive and has as much right as anyone else to make his feelings known. However, he doesn't have more right either. I think it is important that we don't all exaggerate the significance of one dissenting opinion here. He's all but said that his mind is made up, I don't really think that anybody is going to say anything that will impact his thinking. Perhaps Abraham Lincoln said it best when he remarked that you can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. Or to put it more tersely, there's no satisfying some people! My sense is that everyone's energy would be better spent trying to help those who are open to assistance.

I will leave it at that and leave to others to decide if they want to perpetuate this debate. I'm off to my Progasm, tootles!

All the best to you Nat

Mark

All the best to you Nat

Blessings to you Nat.

I wish you well in your business Nat and however you choose to follow your MMO interest. All the best!

Good Luck!

Cheers...

Bon Voyage et Bon Chance in your future endeavors.

We may not agree with your opinions but we do hope you find your Nirvana somewhere else, if not here, Shalom.

I was going to respond, but I will just ask one thing :

He's all but said that his mind is made up, I don't really think that anybody is going to say anything that will impact his thinking.

Can you please quote where I specifically said that my mind was made up? If you read my last post you would notice that I told support that I am wiling to work with them, but was unsure if there was anything left to try.

In all honesty, if you dont like my perspective, say so. However, there is no need to put words into anyones mouths. If the thread frustrates you so much that you cannot offer a response that isnt putting judgment on a member, simply move onto the next thread. No one here is trying to start trouble.

Dave, to address you, I really dont think I can answer your question. The only thing I can say is that I have given a lot of loyalty, time, and money to Aneros. In return I want something a bit more than a few random sensations over 3 years time. The give and take ratio doesnt seem to even come close for even the money I have spent.

Nat,

You were here for months before I started my journey and some of your posts along with the resulting dialog were a part of my early education about Aneros toys.

Your early 'tingles,' apparent growth of energy in your chest (heart chakra ?), and 'twinkling lights' on the ceiling when you opened your eyes were impressive happenings that confirmed your early progress. When you reported the improvement of your married sex life and attributed that to your Aneros sessions I was impressed.

Your 'final plea' thread was somewhat puzzling to me. Your posts in this thread, when contrasted with your early enthusiasm for the Aneros tend to indicate another "finality."

This morning i did an 'user name' search and reviewed your early threads. I find it hard to believe that in your early Aneros use, you were not a rather satisfied customer.

If you are really amenable to this practice it might be well to return, perhaps not to 'square one' but to your roots in 2008.

jm2cw ... rook

My reasons for using Aneros to begin with are different than those of most members. I did not buy it for health, nor did I buy it is a sex toy. I really dont want to discuss it, because it is a very personal issue.

Errr huh? Well then why are you upset about it 'not working as a sex toy then if that's not why you bought it?

Like others have pointed out the fact that Aneros has any kind of money back guarantee is pretty much amazing. Seriously I just don't get why you're so damn pissed about the money aspect of all this. There's people starving to death all over the world and you're pissed because you're out a few hundred $$ that was spent over the course of a few years. Would you be as pissed off if they didn't have a money back guarantee in the first place? Even without a money back guarantee I wouldn't hesitate to spend a few hundred $$ for a chance to experience MMO's even if I did know that there was a chance that the product wouldn't work for me. That's an easy gamble to take right there. I actually read the forum for awhile before taking the plunge. By doing that I learned before I even bought it that some users have difficulties achieving success with the product.

Even if you're not getting the results you'd had hoped for, the Aneros is great for your prostate and butt anyways. I haven't used the aneros for awhile now and I can fully feel the difference. It's like I stopped going to the gym. Ejaculations aren't as intense as when I was using the Aneros and I don't have that amazing control like I did while having sex like then.

You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success.

Yea and there are plenty of users having great success with the Progasm. I'm not sure what you're asking of the Aneros team here? To study why the Progasm isn't working for some and then change the design of it? Which wouldn't make any sense since it works great for others.

I know you don't want to hear this but again I feel the problem lies within the user, not the product. I've had the most amazing sessions ever with my aneros.... And I've had sessions where pretty much nothing happens. So when I have sessions where I'm getting no where is it the Aneros fault? No. It's me. It's my body not being in the right state or what not to have MMO's.

I'm not sure anybody here or support can help you anymore than they already have. I feel even if you got your money back you still wouldn't be satisfied. Think it's more just frustration that you haven't had the success that you'd like. You've experienced good sessions obviously because you said so in your old posts. So you know there's something there. The energy is within you. This negativity you're feeling though isn't the route to take to unlock it.

Nat,

You said in Post #33 above:

"You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success."

If you don't own a "Vice", it's my guess that you have never handled or used one. If you had, you would know that the "Vice" is a very different animal from the Progasm. I have little doubt that there are now users of both who have found that the Vice works where the Progasm didn't. I do own both and I have some reservations on both (for quite different reasons). I just happen to find that other models work better for me, but even that depends on my mood on the night.

Billy, with all due respect, we all come from different financial situations. With that said, it is none of any ones business to tell someone that just because spending a few hundred dollars on a product isnt important to you, doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. One thing is for sure, regardless of if it was $5 or $500, the product still doesnt work for everyone. Warranty or not, that is still a fact. So a company is putting out a product while throwing their hands in the air saying "it may work, it may not".

I never said that they should redesign. What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people.

Also, just because I felt a handful of sensation in over 3 years times, does not mean I had good sessions.

I still also love how people feel they cannot continue a conversation, because they disagree with the point of views. Just because you assume something to be so, doesnt mean it actually is.

Billy, with all due respect, we all come from different financial situations. With that said, it is none of any ones business to tell someone that just because spending a few hundred dollars on a product isnt important to you, doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. One thing is for sure, regardless of if it was $5 or $500, the product still doesnt work for everyone. Warranty or not, that is still a fact. So a company is putting out a product while throwing their hands in the air saying "it may work, it may not".

I never said that they should redesign. What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people.

Also, just because I felt a handful of sensation in over 3 years times, does not mean I had good sessions.

I still also love how people feel they cannot continue a conversation, because they disagree with the point of views. Just because you assume something to be so, doesnt mean it actually is.

I would agree, I think we should leave well enough alone about someone's abilities to pay for things. My attitude is that the cost of the Aneros isn't inexpensive but is well in the ball park of a lot of sexual devices that are out there. The difference with the Aneros is that it is one of the few sexual devices that truly works and this is where I take exception with what you're saying. You've written " What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people." This is a false premise, you've offered absolutely nothing to support this. The glass half full perspective is that it works for a lot of people. A more accurate statement might be that some people have trouble finding success with it. Given the large amount of people that have found success with the device there is no need for the manufacturer to change the product itself or how they market it. To their credit they have provided a Forum for users of the product to come together and help one another. There is no question that this resource has helped many more men find success with the device. As others have said, like any product that requires a certain skill level, there will be some folks that don't get it. Fortunately that number has been fairly few with the Aneros. As Support had mentioned, if a widespread dissatisfaction existed with this product, there would be no keeping it a secret. It would be all over the internet.

With respect to those who chose not to continue a conversation with you, perhaps it is because there is nothing more to say to someone whose mind seems to be made up . I looked at some of your past posts as well prior to my comments here about sensations that you experienced and you didn't always have such a negative characterization of them. Your statement about being somehow "thrown into a hole" is illustrative too of a closed mind. That kind of hyperbole doesn't do anyone here (or the manufacturer) justice. Seriously, you will never find a more helpful group of people than here in this Forum. Lastly, the fact that you would side with a notorious character in this forum without even checking into his background, simply because he was in conflict with the general membership, doesn't speak much for your sense of openness either. That person was absolutely enamored with the product! As a matter of fact he stated on many occasions that he thought it was one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind (I'm not exaggerating).

Paul

Nat;

I'm happy to continue a friendly conversation with you. I agree with your point that the manufacturer should be more up-front with the fact that an unknown percentage of men who attempt to find satisfaction with an Aneros device will fail. The exact way to present that information in a reasonable manner that doesn't negatively impact sales and at the same time warns the potential buyer is something I can't specify. I don't think the package needs a scary blurb like the one on a pack of cigarettes. Nor would a weaselly warning like the fine print accompanying a prescription medication be appropriate. Perhaps something along these lines:

"Product performance varies across a wide spectrum, depending on many factors. Some men will achieve first-time success. Others will never achieve a satisfactory result. Please visit our website for usage and warranty information."

Would that do it for you?

Sincerely,

Dave

[COLOR="blue"]IMO helixer was an interesting guy although a bit enamored with his own intellect and opinions ...

- rip

I am looking at this issue as an individual buyer, because I believe that since we are not working with accurate stats here, no one can truly say what percentage of users gain success or not. However, I think you would be really naive to think that I am one of only a few people that have no success. More importantly, I dont like the idea of me giving a few hundred dollars to a company, only for me not to get a product that doesnt work and that I am the problem. Again.. I am waiting for an answer, where is the line drawn? Or is it that Aneros is the god of all sex toys and can never be questioned?

Ask yourself if you were me, what positive would have been gained from this? I spent a few hundred dollars in order to get pieces of plastic that have done little to nothing for me, which I cant send back or resell. All in all spending hours of time wasted in sessions and trying to talk with other users about ways to get the product to work (when those ways should be given to you with the model)/ All in the end to be told that I am the bad guy, because I was dumb enough to support a company product for over 3 years, when I shouldnt have given it more time than 6 months. Have I made up my mind, no. Go back and read my response to support. However, no one has offered me anything new here. I dont take that as people not wanting to help. I take that as, after 3 years time, what else is there to say that hasnt already been said? People on here have expressed what they have done and I have been through all that. What is next?

Ten, I think in order to have a successful product, you need to provide the buyer with almost everything that they need in order to get the product to work. In the case of Aneros, I believe that as you stated, something such as that should be stated on the packaging and told to retail buyers. They also need to make clear to retailers that if a user buys the product in a store, they will not be able to return it as they would if bought on the website. Sure, that would scare off a lot of retailers for carrying Aneros products, but not only is that the backlash of a stipulations based warranty, but your job as a the seller should be to be true to the customer.

One thought : If it might be needed for a user to view a long wiki, have drawn out threads on a forum, and use audio recordings in order to get the Aneros to work, how many buyers out there that are not aware of this are at a disadvantage from day one? This is why I say that if I have to spend all this time trying to get the thing to work, then the product isnt perfected yet. If the product isnt perfected, I would think the company would still be trying to perfect it, rather than just pushing out new product. There is a difference between a learned skill such as a sport or talent and basic product use. And as I have learned through the development of my own business, the most unique products might be great, but if people cannot grasp how that product works and for it to have consistent results for everyone, chances are people arent ready for that product. I know those that have had large amounts of results would disagree, but I would have been happier if I never heard of Aneros, only to hear about it say 5 years from now when the product is perfected. That way I could have spent all that money, but atleast had a better indication of the product, how it works, and the piece of mind that the concept has been around long enough that the product is as polished as it could be. Its just like technology. I would have never gone out and bought the first line of DVD players. They might have worked, but they were pieces of junk. However, waiting around for the 2nd or 3rd generation of DVD players, you are still paying the high end price, but are finally getting a good product.

The reason that products such as these typically dont have warranties are because they are black and white. If you get a vibrator, it is either going to work or not. Vibrators are sucha mainstream thing that everyone knows that you are not going to need to discuss its use and a million other things in order to get started. Aneros is the oposite. Just because a product is in a mainstream industry, you cant assume it is automatically equal to everything else in that industry. Again, I have gone into stores and asked about Aneros. They can only tell me that they have heard mixed results and that they can kind of tell me how the product works. If it was mainstream, their answers would be more confident than that.

As for Helixer, message board banning and arguments always confuse me. In all honesty, if you dislike a person or topic, what is so wrong with stating your opinion and moving on or just skipping a thread all together? Message boards were created so that people can share different opinions and perspectives. These days, if you dont agree with the majority you are considered to be breaking the rules, which is why forums now have full proof rules saying things like "we can make up rules at any time we please under any circumstances". In my opinion, someone should not be banned from a forum unless they are spamming or breaching member privacy.

Nat,

All of your issues have been repeatedly addressed by forum members and Aneros support. The fact that you are now repeating the same questions indicates that you've chosen to ignore much of what has been said and/or that you don't like the answers that have been given. The "is Aneros the god of all sex toys and can never be questioned?" crack is petulant, sad and really uncalled for.

For example, the following has been stated to you twice already (once be me and once by support) and you've chosen to ignore it, if there were some large group of dissatisfied users it would not be a secret. Surely with all the other boards and forums and blogs out there, such a thing would be obvious by now. Your only response, if you can call it that, "I think you would be really naive to think that I am one of only a few people that have no success." Personally, I think it's uninformed to assume that there is some large group of people who are not having success simply because it has been the case for you! Particularly since there is an absence of evidence to support it.

With respect to Helixer, it is now clear that you know very little of what transpired with this individual. The problem with this guy was not that he had unpopular opinions, it was that he was engaging in monotonous, megalomaniacal, hateful, rants, which was and is in violation of the forum user agreement. But if you want to hang your star with him go right ahead.

@Dave, the Aneros is a sex toy, NOT a pharmaceutical product. It comes with a 3 month refund / guarantee, something no other sex toy provides. This is a satisfaction guarantee by the way, something that makes it even more unique for this kind of device. It not only about quality and workmanship, in essence within 3 months time one can claim, "it didn't make me come" and receive their money back! Even if there were warranties for dildos, can you envision a manufacturer offering that kind of product performance guarantee? I think not. As far as tailoring warnings to meet Nat's approval, I think that's pretty inappropriate, besides you'll notice that it didn't satisfy him. I suspect that even a full refund wouldn't do it for him at this point because then he'd have us consider all the time he's wasted.

I think MarkM had it right, " my sense is that everyone's energy would be better spent trying to help those who are open to assistance".

Paul

can we PLEASE let this tiresome thread die a natural death?

darwin

The "is Aneros the god of all sex toys and can never be questioned?" crack is petulant, sad and really uncalled for.

For example, the following has been stated to you twice already (once be me and once by support) and you've chosen to ignore it, if there were some large group of dissatisfied users it would not be a secret. Surely with all the other boards and forums and blogs out there, such a thing would be obvious by now.

It is not uncalled for, because it is a realistic question. I asked where the line is drawn between the product not working and it being an issue with the user. Not only did I not get a straight forward answer, but I am getting hostile comments from members just because they cant give an answer. Dont be frustrated, because that is part of my point. I dont believe anyone can actually say where the line is drawn, meaning the product still needs some development. Aneros gives a 90 day warranty, but can the Aneros team take a stand and say that if the product doesnt work within 90 days, it could most likely be a no go? I know that this is really not the case, because it has taken years for some users to get success, but I feel as though the team that made the product should be able to give an answer or atleast an idea. This then needs to be clearly stated to buyers and adapted in the warranty. Also, no one answered why the warranty only applies for online orders. If this is the case, why even sell Aneros in stores if you are blindly putting buyers at a disadvantage? Most people do not check out the fine print unless they are at the store about to buy or at home after buying.

I was not ignoring anything. So what, there arent as many vocal people that are dissatisfied with the product. My question was never "how many dissatisfied customers", it was "what measures are you taking to deal with dissatisfied customers". I could care less about how many people arent getting success. What I care about is that those who are not getting success either get the product to work, or dont have to walk away with no closure. So no.. all my questions have not been answered. So have been danced around, but not answered. My above phrasing was just to say that users act as though Aneros is perfect and can never do anything wrong, not even be questioned, making it the god of sex toys.

It might be a bit uninformed to assume that since I have not had success that a large amount of others have not. However, it is just as uninformed to assume that since you have had success, that most users are satisfied. Again.. this is part of my point from above. No one can actually say besides the Aneros team, who I doubt has these stats.

As for the warranty, the the post earlier in the thread is correct, it is a 2 month warranty, not 3 month. Besides that, the warranty is only valid on online orders and specific models. Just for thought, because I know everyone will attack me for asking this : If Anerose is as confident in their product line enough to give a warranty on products when other companies wont, why are they unwilling to put their ass on the line when it comes to all of their products?

As for Helixer, I read a lot of his posts, but dont know the guy. However, if I am reading something that I dont like, typically unless it is within a conversation I am having, I just skip it over and move on. I am adult enough to realize that everyone in the world holds different values and opinions. When you create a forum on the internet, you are asking people of all different forms of life around the world to come together and discuss a subject. Therefore, whether you are an administrator, moderator, or member, you are going to run into members that you disagree with, find offensive, and so on. This is the case even more so offline. So.. in these cases, what do you do offline? You might remove yourself from the situation, allowing you to move on with your values and opinions as well as the other individual. Why is it so hard to do here? They cant members just move onto the next thread? Surely members dont read everything thread posted, because if they did they might have way too much time on their hands. This leads to a lot of unneed posts, such as Darwins last one. Darwin, if you dont like the way the thread is going, why continue reading?

Those blanket forum terms of service write ups are a bit too gray. What say me and you might consider hateful, a person in a different part of the world or even state might not.

Opinions, opinions, opinions, yada, yada, yada.:)

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

OPINIONS - They're just like farts. Everyone can have them but they never amount to crap.

Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one, and most people think theirs smells the best.

Opinions are like bellybuttons. They're mostly good at gathering lint.

Opinions are like onions. Some make you cry, some make you stink.

Opinons are like armpits. Everyone should use real information as a deodorant before airing theirs in public.

🙂

Nat,

It's pretty clear how far gone you are when you're still trying to deny something as factual as the guarantee. MarkM corrected you on this earlier, he posted the entire thing! Again, it's a 90-day 100% money back guarantee. There is no question about it. Go to: Prostate Massage, Sex Toys for Men, Male G-Spot, Prostate Stimulators Stimulation, Anal Toys . Look in the left corner for "100% guarantee", click on that. You should have no trouble grasping it. But then again, maybe you will! This thread is the truest confirmation of the old adage that people see what they want to see!

For you, it's the glass half empty Nat, the glass half empty.

As usual Darwin has this one right too, this is going nowhere. Enjoy yourself my friend.

Paul

p.s Imp's last quip about opinions being like deodorant nails it!

bump ........

can we please let this tiresome thread die a natural death?

Darwin

imp, you are correct about that, which is what frustrates me about this thread. I am not allowed to have an opinion, state it, and ask valid questions, just because a group majority disagrees with that opinion. To my knowledge, if you dont like what someone has to say on a message board, walk away. There is no need to post for the sake of posting. All for what, to ask that a thread be locked because you personally dont agree with someones opinion, when in fact by you doing that you are trying to force your opinion on an entire board. It doesnt make sense and at the very least is trolling, which is against most board rules. Not only did I not start this thread, but I have said many of times that I am not bringing up any of this to start trouble. Because that has been stated and that I have not attacked posters, there is no grounds for the thread to be deleted.

This thread is the truest confirmation of the old adage that people see what they want to see!

This is also true. However, the shoe fits on both feet. You guys refuse to take my opinion as a valid different perspective because you have had success with the product. Therefore, you find it hard to believe that it might not work for everyone, giving you a more protector mentality, all to the point that people want to censor my opinion since they disagree. To me that isnt very inviting and maybe the reason why disatisfied customers might be afraid to post their issues.

One thought : If it might be needed for a user to view a long wiki, have drawn out threads on a forum, and use audio recordings in order to get the Aneros to work, how many buyers out there that are not aware of this are at a disadvantage from day one? This is why I say that if I have to spend all this time trying to get the thing to work, then the product isnt perfected yet. If the product isnt perfected, I would think the company would still be trying to perfect it, rather than just pushing out new product. There is a difference between a learned skill such as a sport or talent and basic product use. And as I have learned through the development of my own business, the most unique products might be great, but if people cannot grasp how that product works and for it to have consistent results for everyone, chances are people arent ready for that product. I know those that have had large amounts of results would disagree, but I would have been happier if I never heard of Aneros, only to hear about it say 5 years from now when the product is perfected. That way I could have spent all that money, but atleast had a better indication of the product, how it works, and the piece of mind that the concept has been around long enough that the product is as polished as it could be. Its just like technology. I would have never gone out and bought the first line of DVD players. They might have worked, but they were pieces of junk. However, waiting around for the 2nd or 3rd generation of DVD players, you are still paying the high end price, but are finally getting a good product.

I think you're putting just too much emphasis on the perfection issue. It's most likely that the Aneros team has put countless hours into the design and functionality of their products. You state you wish you would had never heard about the Aneros and would rather had heard about it 5 years from now once it's "perfected". That is just a ridiculous comment. I'm pretty sure I bought my first Aneros 5 years ago and here it is 5 years later and apparently it's not perfected. And I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that in 5 years from now it's still not going to be perfected. Most likely not in the next ten years and so on... Because like I've stated before. It's most likely something like 20% product vs 80% your own ability as far as what kind of success you'll have when using the Aneros. We're dealing with orgasmic energies within our body which the Aneros team created a product that helps MANY PEOPLE stir those energies around in the body often creating mind blowing one after the other orgasms. That's a pretty fantastic invention! I'm sure in the hell happy I didn't sit back and wait a decade to make sure they perfected the science in the devices to make sure I wasn't gambling a few $$ to see if I couldn't MMO. Though I can completely feel for you in the regard that I also would feel pretty let down if I never achieved any kind of satisfactory results while others seemingly were.

I just don't think you can perfect something like this when there's so many variables involved. The biggest variable being the HUMAN BODY. It's like with drugs. Everybody reacts to drugs differently. You can't perfect how a drug will work because people will respond to it differently.

I doubt a dildo will be made that produces guaranteed MMO's every time. Too much of it has to do with your own orgasmic energy levels and so on. If anything I think the next step in that direction would be more like electronic stimulators or something of the kind. Like science being able to figure out exactly how to trigger the correct brain signals/pulses or whatever that produce orgasm/MMO's. Though even that may be a stretch because of the human body variable issue.

As far as pushing out new products... Isn't that a way to continue the evolution of the product? For some reason certain models work better for people than another so the more models out there the better chance of finding one that works for you. Plus there's the whole demand for them. Just because you haven't been having success with the products doesn't mean others aren't and they've found that different models produce different kinds and levels of orgams so are happy to see what the next model will produce for them.

And as far as disclaimers are concerned for how Aneros promotes their products. I see nothing wrong with how they've promoted it. Nothing wrong with getting guys excited about the prospects of being able to achieve MMO's. Something most men never knew even was possible for them.

But I do think that a simple "Results May Vary" disclaimer is all that's needed to clear anything up.

Billy, what I mean is, how many products do you know out there that are not skill based (such as learninga sport or instrument) that do not work 95% of the time you use them? Sure, we can talk about As Seen On TV scams, but realistically that is what I mean by perfection. If a product doesnt fully work yet, either the company needs to hold off on its release, or be willing to accommodate to customers or state that it is a first or second generation model. And you are right, 5 years from now Aneros might be the same. However, why is that? It is because this is the limitation of the product? Is it because the company has moved on, no longer interested in perfecting existing product? No one can answer these questions besides the guy that creates each model. But I would like to believe that considering how expensive the product is, they can afford to atleast sit around and brainstorm what might be going wrong with some of their customer base. If this product is actually that scientific with your body (as I have no doubt it is), then product creators need to research aspects of the human body and why it might not be working for a lot of people.

You are right, drugs dont work for some people. However, we live in an age that if enough research is done, we can point out consistent symptoms, where we can tell people that a specific drug will not work for them. The difference here is, we dont have drugs (unless we are talking the extremes of curing cancer and such), where doctors will say after 10 times of use "it may end up helping you after 10 more usages or it may not". However, this is how Aneros operates. This is why I suggested that for beta testing, you should have an equal amount of experienced and inexperienced users based on success rates.

For some reason certain models work better for people than another so the more models out there the better chance of finding one that works for you.

This is EXACTLY the reason why I was pushed into spending as much money as I did. The Helix is the most centric Aneros model. However, after months of getting little to nothing, I was told that the model might not be the right one for me and how this model and that model have brought on individual success. So I did that and the cycle continues. I wanted to succeed, other people wanted me to succeed, but I never did because of the limitations of the product. But when you see that 5 or 6 models are already out there and people are still struggling, doesnt it make sense to want to know why it is they are struggling, rather than assuming its always something wrong with the user? We can even assume 9 out of 10 times it is a problem with the user, but does the company not feel bad that the 1 of every 10 is giving out money to them and they arent even trying to figure out why the thing isnt working?

While I have not heard back from them yet, support has gotten in contact. I would be interested to know about any "secret" methods that they have to get this thing to work, which have not been expressed by forum members tons of times. Its too late for a refund, even more so since I have the double disadvantage of buying mine in stores within two different states. But I do want to get this thing to work or gain some type of closure.

I'm not sure you're getting it. Today I could use any aneros model I have and have a mind blowing experience that rocks my world. Next week I could use the same model and have close to nothing happen. Which is why you can't perfect this thing. After having the greatest experience in your life with it you'd think wow this is such a perfect product. But then after having a dud session with it you'd think damn this thing doesn't work. That's all the proof that it's not the product but it's the user. The vast variable of everything that it is to be human coming into play. There's only so much the product to overcome. There most likely will never be an Aneros product that gives everyone that uses it a 95% success rate because of the human body variable. Seriously if Aneros really held off on releasing a product until it had a 95% success rate (and I mean that everyone who uses it has a great session 95% of the time) then there would be no Aneros product because it's just not going to happen.

I've said this before somewhere in this vast forum but what I like so much about the Aneros is that it opened up the world of "energy work" for people that never really knew it existed. Though using the Aneros is sort of a way to cheat, many users realize at one point that they do not need the Aneros any more to build energy and manipulate through out their body and learn to eventually create mind blowing orgasms through meditation alone without the "help" of the Aneros. That's pretty awesome.

I think we need to simplify here, because no one was trying to talk about the extremes of the product working, such as repetitive orgasms or a super o. You are no doubt a success case. What I am talking about in my posts are people that have been using the product for a long period of time and cannot even get sensations. I think I have maybe had consistent sessions twice in a row, which included feeling something that wasnt even a p wave. This is not to mention that when it did happen it was about a year and a half ago. I am not trying to be a jerk, but have you gone that long without feeling anything while still having active use? If not, your case doesnt apply. The product has worked for you. That has never been in question.

I understand that sometimes it is the user and that the product might never be perfected to that extent. There is a difference between the product working 95% of the time for all users and users just having consistent sessions. We are all going to have dud sessions. However, when its at the extent that a user has been using the product for a few years and all of their sessions have been duds, you can no longer simply blame the user and walk away. A line needs to be drawn and only those developing the product can determine that. It is a possibility that you guys might be right and I am in a very slim minority. However, it seems like unfair business practices for the company not to realize that this minority exists and to warn buyers about it, seeing as they can end up being one added to that minority.

While this is off topic, I do not have interest in jumping into this as an added hobby. I want to achieve everything that I can with Aneros, but for me personally, I could care less if I ever achieve the ability to orgasm at the snap of a finger. While my sexuality is very important to me, it isnt my life. I am about so many other things, just as I have so many other things that I need to dedicate my time to. This is why the only thing that I havent tried that has been suggested is for me to have 4 or 5 hour sessions like some members have described. I simply just dont have the time. If that is what it takes to get the product consistently working, that needs to be clear as well, because most people in the world do not have that kind of time to waste (that is said not to offend anyone that does).

Nat:

I respect your opinions and your right to post them, but I have to agree with nearly everyone else here that they are not justified. Even though you don’t appear satisfied with the responses, I hope you can appreciate the amount of time and effort that have been invested by people who are clearly trying to be helpful. To me, this is enough to justify all the money I have invested in my three Aneros products, even if they didn’t work at all.

In fact, in the nearly two years since I started this, I have not achieved a super-O and I think there is a chance I never will.
If so, so be it. Anyone who spends some time reading the forum will soon see that some users haven’t made it.
Thanks to the internet, anyone looking to buy a manufactured product can now quickly learn what other buyers think about it. I never make a purchase anymore without looking at user reviews on Amazon etc. There will always be some critical reviews, one learns to balance these against the positive ones. In the end, you take your chances.

In my case, I will never regret my Aneros purchases, even if I never reach the final climax. What I have achieved is a profound awareness of my own body that I never before understood. The Aneros was only a part of this discovery, the other part was this forum. Without it, as far as I am concerned, the Aneros is little more than a meaningless piece of plastic, except for those lucky guys with a supercharged arousal system. In terms of helping me with this awareness, the contributions made by hundreds of people, including many of the same ones who have replied to you are, in my mind, nearly priceless. Whatever I spent buying the products, it is one of the best investments I ever made. Sure, it probably costs three bucks to mold the things, I don’t care if they are getting rich, more power to them. Sure, the products are not “perfect,” they probably never will be. My own vision is of future devices that don’t just vibrate, they simulate the subtleties of real human movement. They are coming, and I’m sure Aneros as well as many others are working on them. But having designed and patented haptic devices myself, I know how fiendishly elusive such advances are, especially when trying to understand how our brains work.

Remember, we are trying to fool our bodies and brains into thinking they are responding to the act of reproduction. Nobody on earth fully understands what that entails.

I made the same mistake you did: when the first model didn’t produce a super O, I decided to order another one in the hope that it would do the trick. When it didn’t, I bought a third. I now understand that the problem was me, not the tools.
I agree with several of the others that a simple disclaimer might be advisable. This might have prevented you from feeling that you have been misled. But I’m sure each of us has made, and survived, much bigger mistakes in our lives. To dwell on it is a form of mental poison.

May I suggest you look at your problem with a different perspective. Keep in mind that ninety percent of the process is not what is stuck in your rear end, it is in your mind, and no one else has any control or understanding of what goes on in there. It is simply not productive to blame the instrument or its maker for the outcome. You would not throw away a pencil because it does not write inspiring prose. These Aneros devices are not that different.

As a fellow user who has failed to achieve the ultimate success enjoyed by so many others on this forum, I urge you to leave the noise behind and get on with the process of finding what makes your own life enjoyable. It may be easier than you think.

Good luck
Woodsman

For the last time, this has nothing to do with the super o. I never once said that I wouldnt be satisfied until I reached that point. I just want consistent sessions with results. I want to know that on average the product works the majority of the time, which from my bit over 3 years experience, it does not. Being a gay male that is already in tune with who he is, I was aware of these advances long before I came across Aneros. They are not stumbling across anything new here besides a device to make them more mainstream.

To you it might be good enough to just get help from some forum members. However, I could have asked for help on this forum or others for no charge at all. So in reality, while people here try to give a helping hand, you have to remove that from the sale. The sale is about nothing more or less than the product itself. Either way, let me ask you this : if you got all this help that you felt was worth the $70 per model and received no results, would you still think it was worth it? Again, you like Billy are coming from an approach of a user that has had some success. Therefore, it is very reasonable that you are going to think the product works. All I can say is, try to put yourself in my shoes.

With all due respect to you, your financial situation might be a lot different than mine. So the fact that you would be wiling to spend all this money and not care if it was a waste is your perspective. However, some of us highly consider the money that we spend. If it was one model, I might be able to just walk away, but 4 I need some closure or success. This is a bit over $300 if you consider taxes and the money being spent on tube over the years. None of this can even make up for the hours spent over the years on the forum, in the chats, and in sessions. So please, if you have no problem throwing away $300 or so, I would be willing to set up a pay Pal account, then just blindly send me the money (btw, Im being sarcastic).

All Aneros seems to be is that you pay a lot of money for a piece of plastic and the piece of mind that it is 50 / 50 that you might be able to get the product to work.

can we PLEASE let this tiresome thread die a natural death?

darwin

Darwin, sure you don't want support to lock this thread now? 😉

I'm sorry for your frustrations but I just don't understand what kind of closure you're seeking. Short of support being able to send you back in time so that you would had never bought the aneros and hadn't spent all these years without any success I just don't know what else they/we can do for you.

Best wishes