Regular Super-o and the Paradigm shift.

Great post! I currently struggle with the "need" to use THC to achieve results. I attempt sessions without occasionally in an attempt to break free of that and achieve the same pleasures while sober. I just have to unlock whatever is blocking my sober progress. Haven't figured it out yet!

@reddog152

Just take the time,you’ll get there. Its just my take on things. That’s a good plan though,use your thc and pepper it with sober sessions. The paradigm shift may be different for different people but this was mine. 

I think there's definitely something to be said for thinking about it in a different way... even as an experiment. A high-level shift in perspective can line up other dominoes behind it, things we might never even think of.

Posted by: @reddog152

I attempt sessions without occasionally in an attempt to break free of that and achieve the same pleasures while sober. I just have to unlock whatever is blocking my sober progress. Haven't figured it out yet!

I found it impossible to mix and match sober/stoned sessions. When I quit THC, I needed about a month before sober sessions even started feeling like anything (and still improving months after that). I'm not sure how much of this was my dopamine receptors re-adjusting to the lower dopamine, or how much it was because I'd learned some bad habits/expectations from that "plug-and-play" experience I had with weed. Since I'd spent those years not needing to relax on my own, I'd forgotten how to even do it.
Of course I can't tell you your experience, but the quality of my sober sessions took a noticeable nose-dive when I started using THC, and improved again months after I stopped.

@clenchy 

Posted by: @clenchy

I think there's definitely something to be said for thinking about it in a different way... even as an experiment. A high-level shift in perspective can line up other dominoes behind it, things we might never even think of.

That’s pretty much how it happened. It was light a light bulb moment. Now,instead of looking forward to a super o,I look forward to the ejaculation,the super-o no longer the highly sought after nirvana. It hadn’t occurred to me to think of it like that before. It’s been a long road from the start to today,but i think I’m where I want to be.

Posted by: @clenchy

I found it impossible to mix and match sober/stoned sessions. When I quit THC, I needed about a month before sober sessions even started feeling like anything (and still improving months after that). I'm not sure how much of this was my dopamine receptors re-adjusting to the lower dopamine, or how much it was because I'd learned some bad habits/expectations from that "plug-and-play" experience I had with weed. Since I'd spent those years not needing to relax on my own, I'd forgotten how to even do it.
Of course I can't tell you your experience, but the quality of my sober sessions took a noticeable nose-dive when I started using THC, and improved again months after I stopped.

I find this to be 100% true, I think it's going to be one or the other, unless you can manage having THC sessions only every 90-120 days with very low doses. It really takes months for thing to get near "normal" for me, and then very few THC sessions to wipe out most of the sober progress. 

Posted by: @helghast

Can this be taught? I don’t know,how do we teach someone psyche? All I know is,if you want to traverse your journey without limits,you’ll have to stop setting them in your head,and it’s not the position,or the toy,the limit is in your mind. Grow your confidence that you can achieve success in all circumstances. It’s takes time and patience but it is achievable. 

I wonder if the shift can be done before getting the regular Os ? 

@zentai 

Posted by: @helghast

This is when it dawned on me that I’d been looking at orgasm the wrong way this whole time. Forum terminology describes ejaculatory as traditional and super o as novelty. I realised they had to trade places.Traditional ejac. Orgasm is now something a little different. Super-o is the new normal.

I guess it depends if someone can read that above and it makes them change they way they think about orgasm. As I said,I think this is the shift. Like you,I make notes and I think of how we could manufacture a silver bullet. Teach? God knows. I mean,how can one get a few super o under their belt but struggle to achieve them with some sort of consistency. It’s not the first time I’ve read what helical said. I’ve seen old posts where super o are referred to as rare. 

@helghast 

Each time I think I have things figured out and neatly packaged, I find they want to shift on me, obviously I take this to mean there are still things I have not experienced, yet. I'm missing some data. Maybe there's no silver bullet, but we can probably get close enough that is does not matter a whole lot. Every man will need to figure some details by himself, and no instruction book can teach every possibility. 

As for getting some Os and having issue finding the way again, well I still think that there is some kind of setup that will work better, and this is probably deeply individual. Position, model, music, mood lights or what have you, for some if will not matter, for others, the ritual is an important part. You do need to put yourself in a state where a Super-O is possible. Otherwise, no mental work will make it happen. Or if you prefer, will allow it to happen. The individual who experienced some Os is already in a much more advantageous position simply because he knows at least something works for him. If it worked one time, then it should work again, right? 

The certainty that comes with a first Super-O is quite a powerful thing, but it can also turn into "chasing the dragon". But while the opium smoker can never replicate that first high, it's very likely that subsequent Os will be better and better, so trying to replicate the first experience makes very little sense in the first place. You want to have another S-O, not the same one again and again. 

 The second I insert or start aless, all my daily problems just melt away. Thats all I want it to do. Doesn't have to be super, just take me away, and flush out the shit of my day. Your right about putting things in perspective. I try not to add my lack of the O I want to the shit I'm trying to flush out.

@zentai 

Posted by: @zentai

Each time I think I have things figured out and neatly packaged, I find they want to shift on me, obviously I take this to mean there are still things I have not experienced, yet.

Indeed,i once had things very neatly packaged too.

Posted by: @zentai

Maybe there's no silver bullet, but we can probably get close enough that is does not matter a whole lot. Every man will need to figure some details by himself, and no instruction book can teach every possibility. 

Yes! We’ve often said there is a piece of the the puzzle each man must unlock for himself,and as time goes by I believe finding his paradigm shift is it.

Posted by: @zentai

As for getting some Os and having issue finding the way again, well I still think that there is some kind of setup that will work better, and this is probably deeply individual. Position, model, music, mood lights or what have you, for some if will not matter, for others, the ritual is an important part. You do need to put yourself in a state where a Super-O is possible. Otherwise, no mental work will make it happen. Or if you prefer, will allow it to happen. The individual who experienced some Os is already in a much more advantageous position simply because he knows at least something works for him. If it worked one time, then it should work again, right? 

Then why don’t the rituals and things that worked before produce the consistency desired? I have plenty of set-ups myself that produced results and success,but not out and out consistency. What am I missing?

Posted by: @zentai

The certainty that comes with a first Super-O is quite a powerful thing, but it can also turn into "chasing the dragon". But while the opium smoker can never replicate that first high, it's very likely that subsequent Os will be better and better, so trying to replicate the first experience makes very little sense in the first place. You want to have another S-O, not the same one again and again.

This is where I’m coming from.My view of the super o being extraordinary,thus keeping it high on its pedestal was what was holding the consistency back imo. I don’t mean that each o is a carbon copy of the one before,they vary in many ways and features,but I know they are in that league that us guys would classify them in the super o realm.

I’ll be honest,I used to hear y’all talking about the spiritual side of the journey and thought you were a bunch of crazy men. I never believed in it,until i had my shift,and then I did. 

Posted by: @helghast

Then why don’t the rituals and things that worked before produce the consistency desired? I have plenty of set-ups myself that produced results and success,but not out and out consistency. What am I missing?

That's going pretty deep into both Super-O philosophy and mechanisms. Basically, do we really want to peak behind the veil? 

Ok, I'm being overly dramatic, but not as much as you think. We don't want to kill the magic, do we? We don't want to make Marcus Aurelius-ses out of ourselves: "...as for sexual intercourse, it is the friction of a membrane and, following a sort of convulsion, the expulsion of some mucus." Yay, this seems fun!

If we start thinking it's only about applying formulas, there's a risk of ending up thinking that a Super-O is: "the friction of some devices on the prostate gland, creating some pleasure." 

Some rituals do produce consistency. Physical rituals, mental rituals, associations, etc. But you need to tailor the ritual to the situation, different methods for different flavors of Os. A perfectly executed session trying to achieve some calms seas won't pan out if what your subconscious had in mind today was rough seas. I think the advanced user has a big advantage in being able to switch strategies and not fearing mistakes because he has less attachment to achieving *this* specific O and he knows another is on the way. I also see how this reads like mumbo-jumbo so I'll take a break here and I hope someone can steer me with some questions. 

Edit : 

Bah I'll give it a shot. First, we always say THE journey. The implication is that you start somewhere, and end somewhere else. Normally you then come back to where you were at the start. Like Journey to the Center of the Earth.  Each session, you likely have "THE Super-O" as a destination. But there is no definitive Super-O, it's not the same place you try to reach every time. 

It's not like going to the same restaurant and trying different food, it's more like going to completely different restaurants. If you go out and drive to a place, but you had reservations for a different place, they're not going to let you in. If your "ritual" is the road from your house to a certain place, and always the same one, then sometimes they will let you in, sometimes they won't. Still, you are exactly where you meant to go. If you are not the one doing the reservations, this will feel very random. But if you understand "the system", then you'll know you did nothing wrong, and you'll try to see if you still have time to find the right place, the one that will let you in. 

In the context of a Super-O session, "time" is a combination of how much energy, arousal, focus you have and how long you can stay relaxed. Also, very importantly, how long it takes to reach the first destination, and if it's not the right one, how long it takes to realize that banging on the door won't make anything happen. In other words, the ability to see right away you're not at the right place at the right time, and to pivot to a new approach. This can also be worked in a setup where you always try a sequence, "A", then "B", then "C" and so on until it works or you declare the session "done". 

Obviously, this means I see the ability to reach Super-O as a skill or combination of skills that you apply to a situation or problem in order to solve it. Someone with a different paradigm has to find his own narrative that will give some structure and cohesion to his experiences. If you think the S-O is something that happens to you, then the road will look very different than is you think it's something you make happen. 

@zentai 

Posted by: @zentai

That's going pretty deep into both Super-O philosophy and mechanisms. Basically, do we really want to peak behind the veil? 

You’re Damn right we want to peek. That’s why we’d spend a lifetime trying 🙂

Posted by: @zentai

If we start thinking it's only about applying formulas, there's a risk of ending up thinking that a Super-O is: "the friction of some devices on the prostate gland, creating some pleasure."

My point exactly!

Posted by: @zentai

Some rituals do produce consistency. Physical rituals, mental rituals, associations, etc. But you need to tailor the ritual to the situation, different methods for different flavors of Os.

I agree to a certain extent,except where they aren’t producing the desired consistency by the user.

Posted by: @zentai

I think the advanced user has a big advantage in being able to switch strategies and not fearing mistakes because he has less attachment to achieving *this* specific O and he knows another is on the way.

That’s exactly why I shared my opinion of what the paradigm shift is. That there’s another way,like learning to change the way you think about orgasm. To perhaps discover we’ve been viewing it the wrong way.

Posted by: @zentai

Bah I'll give it a shot. First, we always say THE journey. The implication is that you start somewhere, and end somewhere else.

Do I really have to go matrix on your ass and chime “Everything that has a beginning has an end” hahaha (sorry,couldn’t resist).

Not necessarily true if we think of the explorative journey of the star trek enterprise,with seemingly no end in sight.

Posted by: @zentai

But there is no definitive Super-O, it's not the same place you try to reach every time. 

I’m on the fence here,the super-o’s may vary but there is a definitive level guys are hoping for when having sessions. They haven’t started down this road to have a mini o and then pack up for the day.

Posted by: @zentai

It's not like going to the same restaurant and trying different food, it's more like going to completely different restaurants. If you go out and drive to a place, but you had reservations for a different place, they're not going to let you in. If your "ritual" is the road from your house to a certain place, and always the same one, then sometimes they will let you in, sometimes they won't. Still, you are exactly where you meant to go. If you are not the one doing the reservations, this will feel very random. But if you understand "the system", then you'll know you did nothing wrong, and you'll try to see if you still have time to find the right place, the one that will let you in.

This is one of your coolest analogies ever! 

Posted by: @zentai

In the context of a Super-O session, "time" is a combination of how much energy, arousal, focus you have and how long you can stay relaxed. Also, very importantly, how long it takes to reach the first destination, and if it's not the right one, how long it takes to realize that banging on the door won't make anything happen. In other words, the ability to see right away you're not at the right place at the right time, and to pivot to a new approach. This can also be worked in a setup where you always try a sequence where try "A", then "B", then "C" and so on until it works of you declare the session "done". 

This makes sense.

Posted by: @zentai

Obviously, this means I see the ability to reach Super-O as a skill or combination of skills that you apply to a situation or problem in order to solve it. Someone with a different paradigm has to find his own narrative that will give some structure and cohesion to his experiences. If you think the S-O is something that happens to you, then the road will look very different than is you think it's something you make happen. 

I see it in a very similar way my friend. I just share my narratives in the hope that it can help something click for someone else. Like the homework post,heard nothing from wolf but some other guy popped up saying he followed the method and felt some stuff,hopefully that helps him lay the foundations to build on. For the record,I think super o happens to all of us. It’s about helping to get as many of us as possible up there 🙂

Posted by: @helghast

That’s exactly why I shared my opinion of what the paradigm shift is. That there’s another way,like learning to change the way you think about orgasm. To perhaps discover we’ve been viewing it the wrong way.

I think that the ability to switch paradigms during a session is what makes things happen with consistency. This will not mean you always get the O you want, but you'll (almost) always leave the session with something.

Posted by: @helghast

I’m on the fence here,the super-o’s may vary but there is a definitive level guys are hoping for when having sessions. They haven’t started down this road to have a mini o and then pack up for the day.

If you follow the analogy, if you always go to the mini-o place, either you come back with a mini-o, or empty ended because you forgot your wallet, or something. They just don't have S-Os at the mini-o-mart. But if you want 10 mini-os, that's the place to go. It's the same thing, if you've been building arousal for the last 30 minutes and it does not trigger anything, then it's a bit crazy to think you'll slip into calm seas. You're at the wrong place. Can you go from super-aroused to lightly aroused+relaxed, quickly enough to get a "win" during this particular session, that's the question. Maybe the mini-o-mart is just closer than the calm seas store. Analogically speaking again, if you had a watch, schedules for all stores, and a map, you would always know how to get what you want, and you would know when some stuff is just not available. Then it's either, settle for something else, or just don't go out (skip the session). If you stick to this idea, then Super-Os are not bigger mini-os, they happen somewhere else. Or do they? These analogies can be a bit problematic. Mini-Os at the very least will tell you that you have a good shot at a Super-O, but do they grow into Super-Os? That's where people need to put the pieces together until things make sense. I suspect everyone gets a very different end product, or if you prefer, a very different map and schedules. 

If you allow me a videogame analogy, at the beginning of a game, some places will be locked, or you'll see a zone where it's clear something is going to happen later on. At the start, it's not super important to know how to get to these places, but later on, it's going to be important. A good example might be doing or not doing Kegels, you might do them and not see any benefit, then one day you get into as pretty wild session and then the extra endurance comes into play. Lots of skills can be worked on that will help later on. Something that I find to be very important is to be able to breathe freely without involving the abdominal muscles, even if you are in a bridge or other tension position. But this won't come into play before you get into stronger O experiences...   

Posted by: @zentai

I think that the ability to switch paradigms during a session is what makes things happen with consistency. This will not mean you always get the O you want, but you'll (almost) always leave the session with something.

I leave sessions satisfied,pretty much always. I don’t believe I have to switch up. Horses for courses I guess.

Posted by: @zentai

If you allow me a videogame analogy, at the beginning of a game, some places will be locked, or you'll see a zone where it's clear something is going to happen later on.

Of course,I attribute this to how the journey ramps up in stages and that we don’t level up until we’re ready.

Posted by: @zentai

A good example might be doing or not doing Kegels, you might do them and not see any benefit, then one day you get into as pretty wild session and then the extra endurance comes into play.

Well,we always tell em to do some kegels,on the flip side,i remember 1 or 2 members who didn’t do them. I forget the names,one guys had poor English but said he preferred to practice mindfulness.

Posted by: @zentai

Something that I find to be very important is to be able to breathe freely without involving the abdominal muscles, even if you are in a bridge or other tension position. But this won't come into play before you get into stronger O experiences... 

At a bare minimum I think ppl need to remember to breathe full stop. Large controlled belly breaths release all kinds of subtle pleasures. Meditation breathing experience would be very beneficial in my opinion.

Posted by: @helghast

I leave sessions satisfied,pretty much always. I don’t believe I have to switch up. Horses for courses I guess.

I did not mean YOU needed to switch up. Maybe you reached some equilibrium while I'm not there yet. I guess what I wanted to hint at is that one of the solutions when you find yourself chasing and not succeeding is just to chase something different. Switch or lower expectations, change tactics mid-session. There's a lot of things that can be done or tried in 60-minute session if you are not tied to a certain protocol. You could try 60 different things for a minute each, but I would be pretty stumped if you asked me to come up with even 10 different strategies, and 4 good ones could cover most situations. Again, that is if your paradigm is that each session is a puzzle or challenge to solve, which I guess is where (I think?) I ended up.

I don't do Kegels. There. I think the muscles build up or tone up by themselves from sessions just fine. Now Kegels to isolate muscles might play a role, and Kegels to build up some base level anal fitness as a beginner make a lot of sense. Does this contradict what I said above? Well, you might run into a session where muscle fatigue sets in and you tell yourself: "Darn, I should have done more Kegels!" Is this a huge tragedy? Nah. But it's preventable by doing your Kegels. Maybe this could have been a S-O? 

We have to ask ourselves how much wiggle room there is, or in other words, how close to "perfect" we need to get everything. I think there is a lot of leeway. The right position can help put pressure on the prostate when the muscles cannot do it on their own, or vibrating models can "pulse" faster and stronger than you can flex at the beginning*... There are always workarounds. Should beginners do Kegels? Yeah, of course. Right until they are advanced enough to know if it helps them or not, and how much is enough. That's another form of paradigm shift, discovering what truly triggers the Os for you.

Posted by: @helghast

At a bare minimum I think ppl need to remember to breathe full stop.

I believe this is one of the non-negotiable ones. I hardly can believe how deep my breathing can get during sessions; VS how shallow I find it to be in daily life. Also learning to let that belly drop, I don't even have a belly in the first place, but I find myself holding it in anyway, social conditioning? Anyway, the device needs some liberty to move, and Aless, you don't want to have muscles fighting each other. 

(*) Can you turn these stronger signals into a Super-O? That's up to you!