Pornography : Helpful or Harmful ?

As far as I'm concerned, porn has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I've been trying to reduce it as much as possible, and it is always a struggle.

I'm not going to talk about morality of it (there is none) - porn can seem like a helpful thing for aneros usage, as it increases arousal. But in my opinion, it creates arousal at the start of the session at the expense of later satisfaction, as when one is ready to focus on sensations, mental visualization is hindered by external visual stimulation.

I only started having some progress once I started reducing porn. It is quite difficult, as one relies on it to create arousal for aneros session. Which in itself should indicate it's bad. As your brain is no longer able to arouse itself. The success with aneros depends on your ability to focus inwards, and any external stimulation is just a distraction, once really good feelings start developing (at least for me)

p.s. - I also like that this forum feels more like a nice community, rather than some kink forum.

I think this is a very interesting topic. I must admit in recent months I have used it. But I cannot say it has really helped me. Sessions at their best, to me, really have nothing to do with porn. Sometimes after viewing racey material and I’m all hyped I can very easily end up with a dud session and wonder what went wrong.  Like the lines from a Donavan song, Small beginnings, greater end. Focus is a key element in good Aneros sessions and that can sometimes mean that pornography can be a distraction. 
IDK if this is office-topic but years ago I tried to formulate what makes for good mental images for enhancing an Aneros session and I had to conclude that doctors in white coats being busy around me seemed to hit the nail on the head. This fantasy in itself was non-sexual but had some kind of deeper trigger-point to arousal. 

I have found my porn use diminishing as I have got further along in my journey, which I see as a good thing. Ignoring judgements on the morality of porn consumption, it is an addictive activity with real consequences, consequences that go beyond our aneros sessions, so I see any reduction as a good thing.

As far as my sessions go, my breakthroughs have always occurred without porn, it seems to take something away from a session. I have had some great sessions with porn playing in the "background" where I have gotten a glimpse of something which really resonates, a beautiful female back or hands running over smooth skin, which pushes me into an orgasm, but on the whole I find it never gets me to anywhere new. Our sessions are about us, something inside of us, it is very much a body awareness activity and watching porn takes us out of our bodies. I have also noticed that when members are describing a breakthough or particularly good session, there is almost always an element of spirituality to it and that is not what porn is about. I don't believe we can always have spiritual experiences, sometimes we just want to get our rocks off and under that circumstance porn works fine.

Posted by: @zentai

Do you think porn is a useful "tool" in the Super-O toolbox? Why or why not ?

I agree with you that 'arousal' is a key component for getting into the Super-O zone. How one gets into that zone is highly variable. I touched on some of the problems related to the use of pornography in the thread Aneros, Arousal & Abstinence/Semen Retention. I think porn (especially video porn) is of limited benefit, if any, during an Anerosession as others have frequently mentioned. However, there is ample proof that such porn does elicit both a mental and physical response (i.e. increased arousal) in typical male viewers. As such for a certain portion of our membership it may be useful but I do have concerns about the possible negative psychological consequences of overuse of porn as a resource for generating arousal.

Addiction and associated Sexual Problems; are very real possibilities. Please visit the site Your Brain On Porn and read the Research section for detailed information and further links about additional negative consequences of viewing porn.

I think erotic literature may be a more useful form of arousal generation though some may also consider this pornography, I think it is a less clear cut judgement. Even the Bible's 'Song of Solomon' has erotic connotations. Additionally, erotic audio such as noted in the thread Aneros Aural Accompaniment - WIKI listings? may be more useful than visual porn.

Posted by: @zentai

If you use it, do you have a "routine"? If you don't use it, what are your reasons?

I personally don't use visual pornography during an Anerosession because I have found it distracting, taking focus away from my internal sensations. I don't have a ..."routine"... per se, but I do sometimes read erotica as a precursor to a planned Anerosession. It helps get my imagination jump started on building arousal. Erotic literature can provide a basis for constructing my own embellished erotic fantasies and bring those into my Anerosession, though I usually soon forget the story-line as I get caught up in focusing on the pleasure my body starts to generate. 

Good Vibes to You!

Posted by: @zentai

I believe that both positions are true to some degree and that whether porn is right for you or not is a matter of personal circumstances.

Me too. If you can watch it,and still reach your goals,great! Unfortunately,I believe that’s only for the fortunate few. With the surge of online technology and smart phones etc I think most consume way too much,and I think the results bleed out of the struggle posts on the forum where guys are just treading water and not progressing on their journeys.

Posted by: @zentai

I don't know if getting into the ethical aspects of consuming pornography is pertinent to this discussion, or if we should focus only on how it could affect results.

I don’t think many consumers put much thought into where it comes from or if everyone is legitimate. Of course we can talk about it,we can talk about anything,but the overall goal will be how consumption affect anerosians on their journeys,we can’t fix the porn industry,but a mans journey? Hell yes!

Posted by: @zentai

Pornography (often shortened to porn) is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the exclusive purpose of sexual arousal.

Wikipedia is only telling a fraction of the story. I wonder if they’ll ever add,that increased consumption will have the opposite effect eventually lol.

Posted by: @zentai

Do you think porn is a useful "tool" in the Super-O toolbox? Why or why not ?

No,I do not. Sure,as I’ve said,a few can make it work,but I believe they are in the minority,maybe they control consumption and can arouse by themselves if need be. Zen,a question back if you will: If I asked you to have a session,no porn,no anything except a quiet room,could you generate arousal,pleasure and PO all by yourself? I suspect the answer to be yes,but I’d just like to confirm the other side. The point is, some porn users haven’t lost the brains ability to become aroused by itself.

I think @pirontras @BillBately @RickR posts about progress,breakthroughs and best sessions happening away from porn are perfect examples. Whether they have addiction issues with it,or the distraction of it,hopefully they’ll give anyone struggling the motivation to take a break from porn for a few weeks to see what progress can be achieved.

It just seems porn consumption is a stalwart in a large proportion of struggling journeys. I’d tell anyone in this category to bin the porn for a couple of weeks and see the difference. It’s not going anywhere,one can always go back to watching it later. Even for distraction,it’s like texting while driving,the road hasn’t got your attention. Your gland and pelvic floor are like women,they like attention hahaha.

@rumel posted a link to your brain on porn,which would be good scientific reading exercise to understand why a users might be faltering on their journey or indeed the other areas of their sex life,and most importantly,that it is very fixable. 

Posted by: @helghast

Zen,a question back if you will: If I asked you to have a session,no porn,no anything except a quiet room,could you generate arousal,pleasure and PO all by yourself? I suspect the answer to be yes,but I’d just like to confirm the other side.

Yes, absolutely, I can do it without external support.

I think I understand what you're getting at, correct me if I'm wrong : for some people, porn takes the front stage and becomes the main source of arousal, to the point where they can't generate arousal on their own anymore. For some reason, a certain number of men are less affected and can consume some amount of porn without being affected as much.  

I don't advocate porn use and I don't think it's fine and dandy and good for society. I also remember when it was something shameful you did not talk about, and when it was only found in magazines, and maybe it was better that way. 

My main problem with it for my sessions is that it just works. For sure, it's a crutch, but it makes things easier for me. The best way I can describe it is that porn gives me ideas. I have a vivid imagination, and dirty, lazy old porn producers really can't come anywhere close to what I can do in my mind, but 5 to 15 minutes of pornography with the sound off before (or at the start of) a session gives me material I can work with. I have a selection process for what kind of clips I'll put in my mind and I think my consumption of pornography is under control, but yeah, everything points to it being bad for you, and watching during a session as you build to the Super-O, this doesn't make sense to me for a ton of reasons.

I think the way I'm doing it is a step towards quitting altogether, now what's next is finding out if I really want to quit. Limiting use as much as possible is not as good a zero consumption, but I feel it's better than just letting it go unchecked but... absolutely none of my very best Super-Os involved pornography, so I can't say that this doesn't put me in some contradictory position. 

In terms of morality, much pornography is rotten to the core.  Many of the videos on the internet have varying degrees of non-consent, broke folk being taken advantage of, or worse.  There are of course production companies and these days many amateurs who are exempt from this moral corruption, but there is rarely any transparence for the viewers that indicates this.  Porn sites rarely take action over complaints of revenge porn, underage porn and the likes (though pornhub recently took major action over threats of credit card companies, thanks to a nytimes article exposing their poor policing practices and resulting victims). And porn sites are disgusting mirrors of the racist, sexist, and sexually violent nature of humans.  Look at titles of films, categories, the way women are depicted.  Deviations from the "norm" of white and skinny are fetishized: "ebony," "latino," "bbw," etc., saying a lot about stereotypes in our society.

That said, I look at porn very often when I masturbate alone, and have since the age of 12-13 years old!  Sue me.

I don't ever look at porn when I am touching myself in other ways, sessions of aneros, aless or body caressing.  I have no desire to view porn at these times.  I tried in the beginning of my journey and it didn't work at all.  For a while I used just sounds of porn in the background but I soon found it unnecessary.

I did have a brief and intense long distance relationship with a woman who I never met in person, and we had video sex during which I played with my toys, and I have video sex with my partner when we are far apart, also playing with my toys.  So looking at a screen isn't a problem per se.  But perhaps it is the interaction that is exciting in these cases, something pornography doesn't provide...

Posted by: @divine_o

In terms of morality, much pornography is rotten to the core.  Many of the videos on the internet have varying degrees of non-consent, broke folk being taken advantage of, or worse.

Posted by: @divine_o

That said, I look at porn very often when I masturbate alone, and have since the age of 12-13 years old!  Sue me.

That's more or less where I am. I scroll around, trying to find something that appeals to my tastes and doesn't have evidence of any shady stuff going on, and while doing this I get bombarded by the sleaziest stuff they can legally show, and I have to admit my scrolling and viewing advertisement is encouraging this, yet I still do it. These days I often return with nothing, by that I mean I'll check thumbnails and descriptions and everything is trash and I won't even watch a single video. I have a "collection" of 10-15 clips I keep handy to fall back to and I believe it's another step in reducing use to a minimum, but quitting completely feels like throwing an effective tool away and again, I'm not sure if I'm ready to do this.   

@zentai 

Posted by: @zentai

Yes, absolutely, I can do it without external support.

I think I understand what you're getting at, correct me if I'm wrong : for some people, porn takes the front stage and becomes the main source of arousal, to the point where they can't generate arousal on their own anymore. For some reason, a certain number of men are less affected and can consume some amount of porn without being affected as much.  

I suspected you could. And yes,that’s the long and short of it,any advice to skip the porn is not necessary for anyone who’s reached the top and doesn’t suffer negative effects.

Personally I don’t think you NEED to quit if there are no issues.

@helghast

I don't like to quantify Super-Os, but I suspect that if porn "takes a few points away", it won't show as much for someone who's more advanced, but it probably has other negatives. I read something to the effect that "Porn causes masturbation" and what I got from that is that normally, you'd be aroused first, then watch some porn to support that arousal or build it, and then masturbate.

But what happens now for certain guys, is that you're bored, then you watch some porn, THEN you get aroused and now you can masturbate. Without porn, you'd maybe play with your limp dick, get bored again and do something else. I feel that maybe porn causes Aneros sessions too, where I don't necessarily have enough baseline arousal to get me in the mood for a session, but porn will get me just enough to start things up. So instead of what I think should be the golden standard, which is the idea of having a session being what is arousing, I can manipulate things so I can get into a session with some "borrowed arousal". In a way this is a shortcut to be able to have sessions more often than what my body would normally ask for, which is maybe a negative thing in itself. 

Posted by: @helghast

Personally I don’t think you NEED to quit if there are no issues.

That's the main thing, knowing if there are issues or not requires comparing life with porn VS. life without, I suspect that for most people, it has basically no long-term positive value but the negatives are not apparent enough to require making the decision to stop.

If someone can only reach Super-Os by watching pornography, I don't know how reasonable it would be to ask them to abandon both, and since by all accounts detoxing from porn can take several months and can make your libido crash to absolute nothing, it's quite a big step to make for someone who doesn't think he has issues, even more so if being able to get an erection with a partner is involved.  

On the other hand, for someone who thinks he may have some porn addiction issues and is struggling with his Super-O progress, quitting or tapering off, starting right now, is what I would encourage. While I'm absolutely no expert on any of this, once your ability to generate arousal without outside help is gone, I have an inkling that your pleasure is tied so strongly with pornography that a poor little Eupho or Helix won't have much effect, as all your focus is outside of you, as others have already pointed out. 

When I'm stroking my prostate, even looking at *myself* is distracting. I either close my eyes or put on a blindfold.

Oh dear!

This is a topic to fill books with. I really wanted to skip this, but the itch is too strong. And there goes my free afternoon...

Posted by: @zentai

Pornography (often shortened to porn) is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the exclusive purpose of sexual arousal.

Here is my first problem already. Porn is an inert and dead thing. It's up to humans to give it a meaning.

What's the purpose of a knife? Killing? Carving? Cooking? Juggling?

Saying, that something has a (obvious and undeniable) purpose, is merely a subjective interpretation. How can a dead thing have an agenda? The one who made it may had an agenda. But that doesn't mean, we'll use his inventions in the same context. History is full with examples of that. If a racist invents a vaccine, we'll condemn the racist, not the vaccine...

The cited definition is widely accepted, but I think it's a rather weak and misleading definition. Anything can be used in a pornographic context, even the oh so sacred "fantasy" you come up with in your head. On the other hand, media meant to be pornographic can age poorly and become comedic, family friendly entertainment by nowadays standards.

Posted by: @zentai

At last, the question(s) : Do you think porn is a useful "tool" in the Super-O toolbox? Why or why not ? If you use it, do you have a "routine"? If you don't use it, what are your reasons? 

It can be a usefull tool yes. It's obviously a very effective tool for the vanilla masturbation routines of the vast majority of men (and women are closing in). MMO and anerosing is clearly different from classic masturbation, but it's human sexuality nonetheless. The general rules of arousal haven't changed.

It seems, that I'm the unicorn in this thread - I consume porn a lot, but I guess not in a way most would expect. I like to browse "gone wild" amateur subreddits for hours w/o touching myself or having the intention to do so. It's just relaxing, watching normal people getting it on w/o sacrificing their lust on the altar of producing clickbait quality porn. Often I watch youtube on a second screen while I surf naked women. It hasn't affected my libido in any way. I don't get nervous or itchy when I'm off porn for a while, like on vacation. And I don't need it to have aless orgasms or to get in the mood with my partner.

Regarding aneros-sessions, my routine is that I have a downloaded collection of session friendly porn on a hard drive. I fire up a playlist, lube up, maybe eat an edible, set up a mirror or two, to be able to look at myself and then I lay down and drift away. As mentioned earlier, the porn is not the star of the show but part of the background setting. Others like to light up scented candles, I like to to peep at other people having sex every now and then.

It's worh mentioning though, that I'm not watching your everyday P-Hub kind of porn, with it's aforementioned tendency to push fantasies and acts to the extreme. There are two kinds of porn that align very well with anerosing imho, which are:

• tantric massage & assisted masturbation
• solo dildo play

Both tend to be low tempo and focused on depicting the actual (hopefully legit) sensations of the receiver. It's easy to identify with them and get taken away by their arousal.

Posted by: @divine_o

Look at titles of films, categories, the way women are depicted.  Deviations from the "norm" of white and skinny are fetishized: "ebony," "latino," "bbw," etc., saying a lot about stereotypes in our society.

I don't even know where to start....

Let's not forget that we are still ANIMALS! Not everything we do is the source of pure evil. Sometimes it's just our human nature. Is it a dark and violent nature sometimes? Sure, more often than not, that's how our ancestors survived against the omnipotent force of nature. And we do our best to ascend from that. But that doesn't mean, that every primal urge in us is highly problematic.

Fetishizing minorities... really? Dude that's a caricature of the woke left. Not dating outside the heteronormative spectrum is problematic because it's "fill-blank"-phobic, but doing so is problematic too, since you are fetishizing. Checkmate incels...

To be clear: I honestly really like you. We are on the same page so often, but you wokeness-levels are off the charts sometimes. (I hope you don't hate me now... 🙁 )

Porn is selling a F-A-N-T-A-S-Y. You know, things you wouldn't, and more likely, just CAN'T do in real life. The thing that's better than sliced bread if it happens in your head according to 90% of the posts here. But god forbid if people find other ways to live out ther fantasies... so offensive... internalized misogyny at least!

Posted by: @divine_o

In terms of morality, much pornography is rotten to the core.  Many of the videos on the internet have varying degrees of non-consent, broke folk being taken advantage of, or worse.

Again, porn is selling a fantasy. Non-consent is a widely spread fantasy whether you like it or not.

I've never seen a actual scientific study about this topic (if you have one at hand, please share). But I've read a book of a former prostitute, which is kind of compareable, since it covers roughly the same talking points regarding exploitation.

Her arguments were as follows:

• the vast majority of customers are normal people wanting normal sex
• more important than that, what they needed was human interaction and validation
• the only institutions looking at prostitution, are the ones who look for troubled people
  • police
  • social workers
  • anti-trafficking activists

For a hammer, every problem seems to be a nail. Of course, police and social workers only see the dark side of prostitution, it's kind of their job. But they usually don't care to look at the boring, normal side. And they don't recognize, that this mundane side is the norm, not the exception.

I'd say, chances are high that it's the same with the porn industry. The problem is, the more we shame and taboo it (eg. telling everybody how rotten it is), the less regulation will be in place to actually protect the sex workers.

Posted by: @pirontras

As far as I'm concerned, porn has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I've been trying to reduce it as much as possible, and it is always a struggle.

I picked this quote because it condenses what others wrote using more words.

A while back I read "Sex at Dawn", an anthropologic view on human sexuality. It's a very interesting read and I highly recommend it. They build a case, that the "human condition" regarding sex is not the one we live in society nowadays (married, lifelong relationship, happy ever after), but more that of a swinger commune.

One detail they mentioned was, that humans are among very few animals that respond to porn. And they hypothesized, that this is due to how our ancestors used to have sex. One would start, the female would express her arousal LOUDLY (valid to this day, more or less), getting everyones attention and drawing more males to her, leading to a full blown orgy. The reason for that is, that our bodies seem to have optimized for sperm race rather than social race. In gorillas, the winner takes it all - one silver-back is getting alle the females, so his penis & testicle size are not equipted for competition. The rest of his body is though. In bonobos, our nearest relatives next to chimpanzees, the testes are ridiculously big compared to the body size. Because that's the actual field of competition for them. And to have a sperm race, you need to have an orgy. And to have an orgy everybody needs to "be ready" when a party is about to take off.

If that's all correct, it would mean that we are hardwired to respond to watching other people having sex. It would be no wonder why it arouses us. So I'd say it would be rather unhealthy to shame us out of our normal and healthy behaviours. Catholic priests tried it for centuries and we all know how well that one turned out...

To conclude:

I think we focus too much on porn vs no porn and too little on WHICH KIND of porn we should consume. Whenever there is a discussion about porn, there is always the strawman of the most ridiculous, misanthropic, click-bait porn you can imagine. But there is never an acknowledgement that porn is on a spectrum - there are vastly different kinds of porn. And you now what? You can decide which porn is mainstream if you start to pay for the porn you want to see.

That's the reason why there is so much shit out there. Most of us are freeloaders who get sloppy seconds. But it's still a market, there are people actually paying for their porn. And all the awfully clickbait porn you see on tube-site is paid by them. Because that's what they want to watch. So producers cater to them and not to you.

Edit: Did a shit-ton of edits to include a simple picture but the forum software hates me.

I'm certain Unfug works in publishing, or a journalist, or a writer, or a front-end developer. I haven't seen so meticulously structured post in a long time.

Porn is selling a fantasy, and fantasies can be timid, rotten, or inbetween. Some of the pornsites I visit have death fantasies, or animations that work around pedophilia laws (you can't prove an artificial person is a child). I skip past them, as well as body mutilation and anything defecation related. I've been known to flog my genitals with stinging nettle, so I guess I don't have the most usual taste in porn.

I don't think there's something fundamentally wrong with most sexual fantasies as long as no one is forced to do that. Or pornstars don't lead unhappy lives like the recently dead Dakota Skye. Porn that objectifies women seems to be demonized, but guess what - many men like very explicit porn. Men have a higher sex drive. I don't like the current trends around pornography, I don't accept people talking down to me because of my mostly straightforward tastes.

There is a red pill factoid that I find intriguing: "Men love to have sex without commitment, women love to have commitment without sex". It sounds plausible from evolutionary point of view. Men can easily have many babies, so being very promiscuous is a solid strategy for passing genes along. A woman has a bottleneck between her legs, and has evolved a different strategy: care for small number of offspring. And recruit the man to do that. But there's hypergamy. Women are quite happy in a harem, that is sharing a high status man with other women.  Whereas men are often happy to get any woman, women tend to flock to the most successful men.

A marriage, or a less formalized 1-1 relationship, viewed from this perspective, is a compromise. A man gets a woman, but he's not allowed to fuck around. A woman gets commitment, but has to give up having the man of her dreams.

You could make a point that this arrangement leads to more stable societies, which is why it's so widely popular across ages and cultures. Some countries, notably Arabic ones, still permit polygamy but it ends up with scores of frustrated men who won't have a mate. And so the Middle East is notoriously unstable (alcohol also not allowed).

Anyway, my point is that women get to have their fantasy (romance novels, romantic movies, or 50 shades of gray where some VIP chases a plain Jane). Let us, filthy pigs, men, have OUR fantasy. Abundance of young, horny, diverse (haha!) girls dripping with pussy juice. I strongly object that one kind of fantasy should be idolized while the other demonized.

Realize that a lot of women know what they're getting into. Sex sells, and many women sell sex willingly. Metoo is hypocritical in many cases. And given the current trends, in several years we'll see a wave of aging camgirls crying they were abused and forced to do their jobs. Some women consciously manipulate.

Finally, fetishizing minorities... The game "Pillars of Eternity" has a silly quest. In a medieval fantasy setting, you're asked to help getting a shipment of squash seeds to a brothel. Apparently squash seeds ARE used as a sort of contraceptive. The same game has a fantasy setting where different races (elves, halflings, humans, orcs etc) can't have babies with each other. I think it was a lazy way out from the question "Why there are no half-elves, half-orcs, half-halfings, elf-halflings, elf-orcs". It's obvious the number of potential combinations skyrockets with each added humanoid race. It's literally exponential growth.

Someone pointed out the quest doesn't make much sense. People like variety and kink in sex. In the setting, there's no pregnancy by default unless you insist on having sex with exactly the same race. And even in those cases, you'd get something like our ladyboys (boys who dress up as women, a.k.a. "trap").

Posted by: @unfug

Let's not forget that we are still ANIMALS! Not everything we do is the source of pure evil. Sometimes it's just our human nature. Is it a dark and violent nature sometimes? Sure, more often than not, that's how our ancestors survived against the omnipotent force of nature. And we do our best to ascend from that. But that doesn't mean, that every primal urge in us is highly problematic.

Fetishizing minorities... really? Dude that's a caricature of the woke left. Not dating outside the heteronormative spectrum is problematic because it's "fill-blank"-phobic, but doing so is problematic too, since you are fetishizing. Checkmate incels...

To be clear: I honestly really like you. We are on the same page so often, but you wokeness-levels are off the charts sometimes. (I hope you don't hate me now... )

Porn is selling a F-A-N-T-A-S-Y. You know, things you wouldn't, and more likely, just CAN'T do in real life. The thing that's better than sliced bread if it happens in your head according to 90% of the posts here. But god forbid if people find other ways to live out ther fantasies... so offensive... internalized misogyny at least!

Haha, don't worry, I have no reason to hate you.  I like discussing with you! Though I think you mis-read me, or I wasn't clear.

I have no problem with the fetishization of certain people or body-types.  I myself totally understand fetishization, as I am highly attracted to fat women, and turned off by skinny women.  I do think fetishization can be negative in real life.  For example, if you date someone for their skin color and not for your love for the person, or if you marry someone for their body type and they change over the years. I have heard straight from the mouths of non-white women that they are sick of meeting white guys who don't care about their culture, but want to fuck them because it is "exotic."  On dating sites you will see that exact complaint pretty often in women's profiles.

But fetishization can be non-problematic as well, or even positive in certain ways. I have a white friend who is attracted to asian women, who always ends up dating asian women and is now in a very loving relationship with asian woman who he loves for who she is.  I don't see any problem there, seeing as they love each other.  I myself am deeply in love with my partner for her, not for her body.  I would love her regardless of her size, but since she is fat and since I like that, I fetishize and worship her body.  She likes that I love her body so much, but she also knows (because I tell her) that I would love her any way she was.

I do think that everyone should be allowed to imagine and/or live out their wildest fantasies as long as no one is hurt.  I am very sex-positive, and for me the basis is that everyone consents and is happy.  It doesn't matter how twisted things get.

I re-read what I wrote, and I wasn't clear above, but what I was referring to in my comment about porn titles is that they often reflect the engrained -isms of the world today.  There is what is considered normal: white and fit.  These videos can have any sort of titles.  However, the moment a person in the video deviates from this "normal," it is indicated in the title.  Is the man black? Better mention it in the title.  Is the woman fat? That's a must know.  Hairy body?  Throw that in the title, don't want to shock anyone... Basically society has collectively decided on what is normal and any deviation entails categorization, but this normal isn't a reflection of what is normal in the world (last I checked, white and fit ain't anywhere near the majority of people using internet on this planet).  This is a reflection of the engrained racism, sexism and sizism of our society today, as well as the anglo-euro-centrism... I want to go on a rant about that, but I will spare you that.

Posted by: @unfug

Again, porn is selling a fantasy. Non-consent is a widely spread fantasy whether you like it or not.

I've never seen a actual scientific study about this topic (if you have one at hand, please share). But I've read a book of a former prostitute, which is kind of compareable, since it covers roughly the same talking points regarding exploitation.

Again, you misunderstood me.  Non-consent is a fantasy in porn and in people's heads, and that is fine, as long as it stays there.  But I am not talking about the fantasy aspect of non-consent.  I am talking about actual non-consent that happens during a porno shoot and afterwards in the distribution.  It is very common in the porn industry: a woman says her boundaries, but her boundaries are crossed, and she can't really say anything because she feels intimidated by the production crew, because she wants to be paid but doesn't have a written contract, etc.  People are taken advantage of all the time.  If a person is broke, and needs to make money fast, they are more likely to accept doing porn for little money, videos that can come back to haunt them later.  This is a thorny subject, but, for example, can a drug addict who is craving and broke truly make a reasonable decision?  Porn made during a dark period of one's life can become fodder for future public shame, or worse, blackmail.  Non-consensual (by definition) revenge porn and cloud-hacked porn is ultra common, as well as devastating for the lives of its victims (which is why many countries law-enforcement agencies have started taking it so seriously).  And then there is underage porn, which apparently is way more common than we think even on mainstream sites, and which is both sick and brings up serious moral questions surrounding consent.  

Here are the two nytimes articles that recently somewhat changed the industry, though there are still many nasty tentacles of the online porn industry that propagate tons of unethical porn:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-rape-trafficking.html

and a follow-up

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/opinion/sunday/companies-online-rape-videos.html

I am 100% pro porn and pro sex-work, but the lack of regulation in both these industries creates a very dark underbelly which people should be aware of.

Posted by: @unfug

A while back I read "Sex at Dawn", an anthropologic view on human sexuality. It's a very interesting read and I highly recommend it. They build a case, that the "human condition" regarding sex is not the one we live in society nowadays (married, lifelong relationship, happy ever after), but more that of a swinger commune.

An excellent book, and I agree with many of their points!

@divine_o

I have a somewhat different view of why porn titles are the way they are. To me, it's mostly about the "invisible hand of the market" wanting people to connect more easily with the kind of material they want to watch, so they stay on the site and watch advertisement etc.

If I want to see thin, black, hairy women, I'll type this in the search bar, and videos with that description are what I'll get.  Terms like PAWG and BBW and SSBBW etc. were "developed" in a similar way, to me they're technical terms for porn. Remove the terms, and all videos will be called "Two people having sex" and "Three people having sex", and then how can you find anything?  Then when people post videos, they certainly want to label them accordingly so the people looking for this particular kind of content end up finding them and getting revenue their way. That's why you have terms for how dark a black woman's skin is, or for all kind of mixed heritage combinations, mostly because people can have very specific fetishes and matching people with their fetish is how $$$ is made. 

So while there is sexism and racism and a ton of other -isms in porn, (and at some times it's the main event, for example black men shown as thuggish sex beasts with ginormous penises that gang up on poor frail white girls seems popular), I feel like the titles themselves are just for classification and they don't do any further "damage" than what's already in the video content itself. 

Porn titles are ok,I guess they help you get to whatever your into. Although a lot are fake. No end start with cheating wife,slut wife,whore wife,cuckold wife,Hotwife,to be honest a lot are probably just re uploaded vids of some couple,or a guy with a prostitute. 
On business porn I don’t think most actors are made to do anything. I saw a interview between a British journalist and Mia khalifa the ‘hijab girl’. She said you aren’t forced to do anything in porn as that would be rape. She also said she did 12 vids and made 12 grand,but the guys above made millions and that the industry needs regulated. She went on to say that porn had pretty much wrecked her family,friends and life in general,but she takes it on the chin and says she made her own decisions.

Although the ethics can be debated all day long,let’s not forget the physical issues it can cause to people’s reward circuits through addiction and overconsumption. Then the usual suspects of ED,DE amongst other sexual problems. Most importantly on a forum such as this,perhaps that’s why some guys tread water for years on their aneros journeys never getting to the goals the strive for. A successful journey should be achievable in around six months, twelve max. When guys are jacking off 5 times a day to porn,they aren’t likely to make any progress. Of course there are those that can super-o to porn all the want,and thats great.

I think just about anyone is better off without it,than with it. 

@divine_o A side question if you will. Is your partner  thicc? Or ‘bigger’. Just nailing down your meaning of ‘fat’.

Posted by: @unfug

If that's all correct, it would mean that we are hardwired to respond to watching other people having sex. It would be no wonder why it arouses us. So I'd say it would be rather unhealthy to shame us out of our normal and healthy behaviours.

We are hardwired to have sex,not watch in my opinion. Watching doesn’t get women pregnant. Doing sex does. Watching an odd time arouses us. Watching too much has the opposite effect,hence posts on the forum saying ‘porn does nothing for me most of the time,sometimes it makes me horny’. 20 year kids saying watching hetero sex is vanilla,why would they say that if it was in our wiring. I’ve seen it wrote ‘the wife went to bed,and i went to watch porn’. Going to watch porn instead of fucking your wife is not a normal and healthy behaviour IMO.

Why should porn be singled out but romantic novels and movies get a pass? Women watch these instead of having sex.

To me it's not about singling out porn, as I use it for sessions and it works for me. I can do without, but it makes things easier. If I just want to have a good ol' fashioned fap, that might include porn, too. 

It's more about Super-O results than the "outside" aspects, but the two can't really be separated. The real question(s) here are maybe different than what I started with... If I concentrate on results first, and ethics second, and just go for logic, in my mind it goes like this :  

Man A is struggling to reach the Super-O. He watches porn as part of his sessions. Should he try without porn? Absolutely, not because it's necessarily bad, but because he might have to try a whole bunch of different things to find something that works, and it's not impossible that he also has some side effects from watching porn that make his Super-O journey harder to navigate. This is surely worth a shot.

Man B is struggling to reach the Super-O. He doesn't watch porn. Should he start? Maybe. Hey, I'm being honest here. It could help with arousal, but it can make relaxation and focusing on his body more difficult. It could make things better, it could make them worse. Worth a shot ? I'm not promoting it, but again, to each his own, it's not the worst thing you can do. If Man B ends up with  porn-related problems, that's on him. How often does this happen anyway? Experts can't really agree on this at the moment... Maybe Man B will be perfectly fine, maybe not. Is it worth it to reach Super-Os? I don't know how to make that calculation, honestly

Man C, who gets regular Super-Os, can pretty much do what he wants as he works on fine tuning things. Personally I'm trying to reduce usage to a minimum as I streamline things and try new approaches. Results wise, I don't care too much, I'm just exploring. 

While a couple years ago I didn't think too much about how and why the clips I was consuming were produced, now I feel like encouraging that industry is not something I'm super proud of. But if I couldn't get any Super-Os without porn, then actually just stopping because of ethics would not be as easy. Giving up Super-Os just to "stick it" to porn producers sounds like a bum deal to me, but on the other hand I could see how someone could decide to do just that, and people encouraging small independent content have a point, too.  

Hey does anyone know how to link to old posts of theirs? I want to link to a post of mine from a similar thread instead of type it all out again here and copying and pasting isn't allowing me to post it. Thanks in advance!

Man A is struggling to reach the Super-O. He watches porn as part of his sessions. Should he try without porn? Absolutely, not because it's necessarily bad, but because he might have to try a whole bunch of different things to find something that works, and it's not impossible that he also has some side effects from watching porn that make his Super-O journey harder to navigate. This is surely worth a shot.

Of course it is,and there are a number on the forum that are in this very category. Theres a couple of men at the top of this post who report of cutting back/abstaining has created progress where there  was little or none. Of course it could be from desensitisation,but don’t forget the distraction it creates,watching porn but missing what’s going on in the pelvic floor,or chopping and changing clips never letting a session actually get going.

Posted by: @zentai

Man B is struggling to reach the Super-O. He doesn't watch porn. Should he start? Maybe. Hey, I'm being honest here. It could help with arousal, but it can make relaxation and focusing on his body more difficult. It could make things better, it could make them worse. Worth a shot ?

This is close to where I was. I hadn’t tied the pieces together,thought I’d give some naughty a go,but the distraction and messing about made sessions worse,not better,even though I was plenty aroused. That’s where I learned that my gland needed my focus and attention,so I binned the porn off and kept practicing my A-Less. I got it together when I was ready,not before.

Posted by: @zentai

If Man B ends up with  porn-related problems, that's on him. How often does this happen anyway? Experts can't really agree on this at the moment... Maybe Man B will be perfectly fine, maybe not. Is it worth it to reach Super-Os? I don't know how to make that calculation, honestly

The link rumel posted to your brain on porn gives some great science reading. It’s one of dozen of sites that have researched and studied this. It does the same sort of thing like cocaine etc and shrinks the brain they say,so you need more or more extreme over time to try to get aroused,that is a prostate orgasm killer. Also,if your brain has switched of lots of neuro transmitters to deal with the flow of dopamine,you ain’t gonna super o much,as how can you? The equipment is switched off.

Posted by: @zentai

Man C, who gets regular Super-Os, can pretty much do what he wants as he works on fine tuning things. Personally I'm trying to reduce usage to a minimum as I streamline things and try new approaches. Results wise, I don't care too much, I'm just exploring.

Of course there are those who perhaps control consumption etc or lucky enough not to be greatly affected,if you can reach your goals and watch your porn,then great,this is not an obstacle you face on your journey.

Posted by: @zentai

now I feel like encouraging that industry is not something I'm super proud of. But if I couldn't get any Super-Os without porn, then actually just stopping because of ethics would not be as easy. Giving up Super-Os just to "stick it" to porn producers sounds like a bum deal to me,

No it’s not,it creates lots of problems,solves little or none. I wouldn’t  say you should give it up. That won’t stop the industry. It’s just wise in the cases of not making progress due to porn. I assume the goal in this forum is to trade info,tips and tricks so that every man on it can hop aboard the super-o express.

@helghast

All good points. You may think that I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I am in a way, because

Posted by: @helghast

I assume the goal in this forum is to trade info,tips and tricks so that every man on it can hop aboard the super-o express.

and whether we like it or not, porn can help in some cases, and I would be lying if I said otherwise, but I don't want to encourage its use either because it can absolutely trash your Super-O efforts, so this is somewhat hard to navigate for me. 

On one hand, I really don't think pornography should be the go-to solution to reach Super-Os. But as @unfug explained, it's a tool, and you do what you want with it. Dynamite is a tool too, and it the right dose it will do wonders, but we also know what it will do if things go wrong. Maybe the more apt comparison would be those stories you read about "the old woman who drinks a pint of whiskey and smokes a pack a day at 98 years old and still splits her own firewood." Some people just get away with it and no, you should not start drinking and smoking for longevity. 

I spent some time going over similar studies, NoFap forums and the like, when things such a NoNut November started to become more popular, the conclusion is pretty clear that abusing pornography is not good for you, and that it has addictive properties, and yes, some studies do say it does things that even cocaine won't do and that it's even worse. They used to sell cocaine at the drugstore, until people woke up and discovered it was a bad idea. Maybe the same thing will happen with porn, maybe it should be classified as a drug? 

But very few of these studies go into what "responsible use" does. I do think there is such a thing, and I also believe that responsible use for most people should be minutes a week and not hours a day. I don't have anything to back this up, but it does use the same arousal circuitry that is activated when you get aroused to have sex with a partner, and no one will say that watching your wife undress is a bad thing, or that regular sex is a bad thing. But porn's availability, variety, and sheer incredible volume makes it close to impossible to maintain this hypothetic "responsible use" for a lot of men, and it's *very* easy to go into "harmful dosage" where the side effects will dwarf any benefits you might get from it, or more succinctly : 

Posted by: @helghast

 [...] the distraction and messing about made sessions worse,not better,even though I was plenty aroused.

In conclusion, doing without is a lot simpler than trying to walk the fine line where it is somewhat ok or even possibly harmless, and most people would be better just cutting it entirely. And I'll go further and say that a lot of guys who think they're responsible are still using too much, I sure was at some point in my life, and cutting back made things better Super-O wise, even if I never considered I had a problem with it. I won't go so far as to say it is so harmful that it should be outlawed, but selling as good, harmless masturbatory fun is a stretch in most cases.  

Ok ok I'll shut up about porn titles, I agree that they help find videos, BUT tags do serve the same purpose (and actually are more useful in finding videos).  But you didn't want this thread to be about morality... sorry I sidetracked.

Posted by: @helghast

@divine_o A side question if you will. Is your partner  thicc? Or ‘bigger’. Just nailing down your meaning of ‘fat’.

Hahahaha you make me laugh, man.  I don't even know what the difference between these words are, or what they even mean.  Is there an official spectrum somewhere that I don't know about...? wafer thin, twiggy, skinny, average, bigger, thicc, chunky, fat, large and in charge, rubenesque...

Anyways I don't feel comfortable shelling out the luscious details of my big mama's size on a thread about pornography.

@divine_o 🙂

Well it’s just some people nowadays in the world of anti body shaming find the word ‘fat’ to be a rather harsh description of someone,and I was just surprised you used such a word as you’ve always struck me as liberal.

Posted by: @divine_o

Ok ok I'll shut up about porn titles, I agree that they help find videos, BUT tags do serve the same purpose (and actually are more useful in finding videos).  But you didn't want this thread to be about morality... sorry I sidetracked.

Nah it's fine, I talked about morality and ethics quite a lot myself in this thread. Things don't happen in a vacuum, and if people are on the fence about using pornography, then ethics needs to be discussed at some point. Super-Os can be a fickle thing, and if you're thinking that browsing porn can encourage human trafficking in small Eastern countries, or encourage sexism and racism, then maybe this idea in the back of your mind won't help your sessions. What you said was pertinent, so no need to apologize. 

I'm not arguing that lots of video titles are not messed up in some way, and like I said in the original post, this "step-mom, step-sister" trend is probably not helping society. Whether the porn industry has some global agenda to voluntarily push certain ideas or encourage discrimination against certain groups, and how it would profit their business model, now that could be a whole different and probably interesting discussion, but I feel it would be a thread for a different Forum... 

Edit : I'm not talking about mind-control conspiracy theories here, online porn is a $2.5 billion industry and it's only logical that the big players and investors want you to consume as much as possible, so sites layouts, tags, descriptions, clip length etc. are organized towards this goal. If a team somewhere comes to the conclusion that introducing some subtle "-ism" will increase profits, you can bet they'll try it... 

Posted by: @techpump

Hey does anyone know how to link to old posts of theirs? I want to link to a post of mine from a similar thread instead of type it all out again here and copying and pasting isn't allowing me to post it. Thanks in advance!

https://community.aneros.com/community/general-discussion/men-who-dont-use-porn-how-do-you-get-and-stay-aroused/#post-107068

Hey y'all, I hope this post of mine from last year can offer some perspective on this topic!

@techpump

Thanks, that's a great addition with some very interesting ideas ! I'm happy to see that "getting off the porn-wagon" really helped with your results, there seems to be a strong correlation here, I hope more guys will give it a shot. I feel it's really worth a try, and the reward could be huge. 

If any other guys got better results after quitting or reducing porn, that would be a great time to add your voice. Same thing for those who get good result with pornography, what's your secret ? I feel that the way @unfug does things, glancing from time to time, or what I do myself, watching with sound off at the start of the session only, are two good ways to navigate this. In essence, don't let the action on the screen take take the center stage.

@techpump 

I read the whole post and all its replies. Beautifully put. The lions share of it all really is a journey of self exploration and discovery. I had to giggle at the term someone said ‘method purist’! I think that could be me.

One of the things re wiring meant to me was learning to use my own body and my own sensations to fuel arousal as opposed to trying to import them from elsewhere.  I swear I have zones now that didn’t do Jack shit years ago.

For a lot of guys giving their own shit the attention and focus instead of someone else on a screen could really drive them on towards their goals.

@helghast yes yes and more yes!!! thanks!