Perhaps I'm not relaxing enough

Perhaps it's a point of frustration that I always want to feel like something happened, but the last few times I've ended an Aneros session with pulling out a vibrating toy, in this case my Lelo Hugo and added my Cobra Libre II. I know that with enough time and patience I can have a prostate orgasm this way, because it's happened a couple times... I suppose I'm playing with the point of no return and trying to find that line that can be crossed without going into ejaculatory inevitability. Haven't found it yet, just testing out what the books say (Chia, Keesling).

This sounds to me like you have some lingering subconscious expectations about what constitutes an orgasm. Have you considered the possibility that there is no line to be crossed except that which your ego creates for you? Please see Super-O Myths & Illusions regarding 'the Edge' and a couple of other myths. Also please read @neros thread The Myth of Super Orgasm.

... why is it only when I'm asleep that I'm finally relaxed enough to make progress?

It is an interesting conundrum that the relaxed mental state we are in during sleep cycles are also deeply relaxed physical states which can allow our bodies to manipulate an Aneros massager most effectively. I attempted to address this in the thread Aneros and an 'Optimal' mind state? but I'm sure I have some missing pieces to the explanation.

Then just a little bit ago I decided to have another session quite like last nights, except I was thinking I would just take a nap with the Helix Syn, and see where it led when I woke up. Maybe this was part of the "have no expectations" bit, but it actually ended up being a wonderful session, and if I went to sleep it wasn't for very long, as I began having some incredibly strong contractions. No energy moving around, but I felt some strange intense sensations that I haven't felt for quite some time...
There's that feeling when the Aneros really gets going, where one anal contraction blends into the next and at some point I don't know if the toy is moving at all. That makes me think I'm still clenching; in fact I tried to reach behind and feel if the toy was moving or not, however the mere act of focusing on that might have thrown me off as well. I guess I'm hoping that one of you will have insight into this but I realize we're all just fumbling in the dark in a way.

It seems to me your description of your mental state fits the altered state of consciousness found in hypnagogia/hypnopompic but you exited that state when your ego exerted itself to consciously move your arm and hand to check for movement, hence the plateau and falloff of the body's attempt to continue to build arousal and generate an orgasm. You interrupted what your body was focused upon and allowed your ego to take over control, I believe this short circuits the orgasmic build. In the past I have advised men to allow their egos to be objective observers rather than active directors of action. At most, use your ego to apply congruent intent to the body's actions, this is where your focus may be most effective. As I have often mentioned in other threads, I believe we need to "Just Let Go !".

Good Vibes to You !

Thanks for your thoughts! I try hard, when referring to a prostate orgasm, to use imagery like getting to a point rather than going over an edge. I'd describe it as climbing a gentle sloping hill and an ejaculation is like launching off a quarterpipe. I suppose that already having experienced a few (if not Super-Os, then at least pretty good) non-penile orgasms with a vibrating prostate toy, my expectations for Aneros use were high and for the first 6-7 months pretty fruitless and disappointing. But at least I know where I'm heading and I don't think my expectations are unrealistic, otherwise I would have given up a long time ago. After I did get to a pretty important milestone back in January, I started using my Aneros much more frequently and there were lots of times where I would fall asleep during sessions, eventually having all-night sessions with the Helix Syn. The Hypnagogia/pompic threshold is an interesting thought, as I can see a parallel between the transition states described and what is described by Mantak Chia and Barbara Keesling in their respective books: between ejaculation and orgasm is the capacity to have MMOs. Perhaps there is a sleep threshold that is the perfect state for Aneros sessions? As for my own transitions in and out of sleep, I have experienced sleep paralysis once or twice but thankfully it's not a recurring phenomenon. (Being a musician, you might appreciate listening to the album El Cielo by Dredg, which is all about sleep paralysis) So many of my sessions have been ended by drifting off to sleep, it is ironic that this time my trying to sleep is what precipitated more success in this case. I suppose that what I described wasn't a true linear account of what happened in today's session, but some of the more salient issues that occurred over a 90min period. I will admit however, that my mind does have a tendency tobe busy and requires constant reining-in. Thanks for the links, there is good info in there that I need to review.

@Faith-Fortis, hi, congrats, you‘ve already experienced some awesome success and gathered a lot of theoretical knowledge, but maybe, that‘s your hurdle. How to stop yourself from thinking, how to stop your mind from interrupting everything and taking over command when it should not. Having a quite analytic mind myself I used an inner dialogue to help letting go. I kept my conscious mind busy making it talk continuously to my prostate about letting it take over command, encouraging it to give me all the bliss I can handle and to not do me any harm. You will have to find your own words, they must be authentic for you. The rest is pure repetition. As a wise Chinese said nothing is underestimated more than pure repetition. I kind of let my conscious mind talk itself drunken until it someone happened, that my gland really could take over command and my conscious mind really let go without any fear. Indeed this technique does something else, it convinces your subconscious mind to let go too. This watchdog, the security guard of our life, continuously compares our sensations with its enormous memory and everything that feels alien makes him bark. Btw the reason why we get seasick faster under deck than on deck, our feelings don‘t meet the expectation our visual perceptions initiate. To give you an idea, I can tell, my subconscious mind has been so coward that I had to sooth it telling him „I will do myself no harm“ as a continuous mantra for some longer time before it finally allowed my first earth shattering superO.
Only my two cents here, best wishes for your further journey and after all please mind my signature.
Mart

I imagine you do shorter more concentrated sessions, but since you started your post by saying it was five hours and you were browsing the internet, I feel like replying:

When i have my toy in and I am distracted I might as well not have it in at all. The difference in intensity and build up of my orgasms has a lot to do with focus and building arousal. I am not saying that focus and arousal alone will get you there— obviously if that were all it takes, these orgasms would be easy pickings for everyone. But I believe that not being focused/building arousal during a 5 hour session is less valuable than spending a significantly shorter amount of time but in a very focused way.

I would advise against vibrating toys while rewiring. I know that in my pre-aneros days I felt a certain sensation point of no return while using my lelo Hugo (also an expensive mistake!). Once it even led to a hands free ejaculation without accompanying orgasm. Now I am aware that the sensations I felt through the vibrating toys was far from the subtle yet vast realm of sensations brought on by non vibrating toys.

for relaxing, have you tried clenching muscles tight to be aware of which muscles to relax? For example, ball your fist tightly for two seconds, then release it and focus on the relaxing muscles. You will become acutely aware of which muscles were just tense and thus which ones to relax. Try that with different parts of your body while lying down and you’ll discover all sorts of muscles (and tensions) you never knew existed.

You can also “scan” every area of your body to relax muscles, spending 10 minutes or so, starting from your toes all the way to your eyes, still while lying down. Gently wiggle your toes, to become aware of where the tenseness is, and once they are sufficiently relaxed, do the same for each foot, then calves, and so on. In this excercise gentleness is the key.

These types of awareness excercises can be used to become more aware of pelvic basin muscles as well. Once you learn how to fully relax your pelvic basin muscles (and it helps to relax all muscles in the body) then you can start playing with very low level clenches. For me (and many others on this forum, from what I’ve gleaned) it is in these low level clenches that the magic happens.

I hope that helps some.

@divine_oblivion, affirmative, who could still identify the subtle flavors his premium wine has to offer when drinking five bottles in a row? Thanks for at least helping me bringing those awareness exercises back to memory. Best vibes, Mart

@SOwithoutAneros and @divine_oblivion you both bring up good points, so thank you for your suggestions. As far as inner dialog and scanning muscles one by one those are ideas I haven't encountered before. Be assured that 5hrs was an atypical session for me. I had one last hurrah yesterday morning and that session was more fruitful though shorter. But right now I have Friday night to Sunday morning by myself and in a way I'm binging I suppose. It will take time and self-control to limit myself to one or two short sessions the entire weekend, but your points are well taken! I'm working towards that.

@Faith-Fortis i shouldn’t have opposed short concentrated sessions to long in concentrated ones. I mean, if you can do 5 hours and focus that is good too !! I just meant that being distracted with your toy in makes it significantly less worthwhile. Like imagine masturbating traditionally while browsing the internet (not for arousal material). So given that we have short attention spans for the most part, shorter sessions seem better for concentration.

It will take time and self-control to limit myself to one or two short sessions the entire weekend, but your points are well taken! I'm working towards that.

@Faith-Fortis, yeah, it might only take some more time, you will nevertheless see progression.

You just made me remember my first years at a gym. I couldn't but workout for two hours at once three days a week. After my first workout sessions it felt so good, but after a couple of weeks I left the gym fully exhausted and quarrelling with my missing results. My expectations about my muscle development remained unfulfilled and I finally quit my membership after two years.

Some years later after having read a lot of books and articles about muscle growth and training methods I started over in another gym, owned by a serious bodybuilder, who had already taken part in competitions.

I learned that 45 minutes were my limit I could focus on my workouts and that my body type and predispositions demanded much longer refractory periods up to one week for my legs and adequate nutrition to allow my muscles to grow.

In a nutshell, less is more.

But I can't deny what happened back in 2017 - also taking about five hours ... :p

Enjoy your weekend but allow yourself at least some short breaks during your Aneros binging. 😉
Especially drink a lot of water! No joke, it helps a lot.
After all I wish you all the bliss possible and that you enjoy your me time to the max!

Cheers, Mart

So if you don't drink enough water, that can negatively affect your aneros sessions ?

@Spikester71 personally I have no problems with hydration and aneros use. I haven't noticed that hydration helps or dehydration has a negative impact, and I have a tendency towards dehydration. And if anything, too much liquid before a session makes me have to pee during, which can put a damper on things. But we are all different, and many people here say hydration is important, so it is a factor to consider.

Speaking as someone who lives at high altitude, drinking water is essential to merely not getting altitude sickness! They say you should drink at least 5 quarts a day in Colorado... Now for myself, I've found that a barrier to Aneros sessions is the need to void my bowels, I'm a bit too frequent right now. So I suppose I should eat less. Probably should drink more water to make up for it!

@SOwithoutAneros your points are well taken. I've read a lot of threads over the last few months that say similar things, but then sometimes if I want something to happen I need just a bit more time. Then again yesterday I only had 30min and some good stuff happened...

So if you don't drink enough water, that can negatively affect your aneros sessions ?

@Spikester71, that wasn't meant as a rule for Aneros use. @Faith-Fortis mentioned

But right now I have Friday night to Sunday morning by myself and in a way I'm binging I suppose. It will take time and self-control to limit myself to one or two short sessions the entire weekend,

Referring to the following paragraph in Mantak Chia's "Multi Orgasmic Man" I especially wanted to recommend it for his binging weekend for

Preventing Overheating

According to the Tao, erection energy is wood (or liver) energy. So when you don't ejaculate and you
pull up the orgasmic energy, you will increase this energy in your liver. If this increasing energy is not
transformed into love and kindness, it will transform into anger and hatred. So when you have a lot
of energy, practice being especially kind and loving to your partner or, if you do not have a partner,
to other people in your life.

Other techniques for preventing yourself from overheating include drinking a lot of water and
even swallowing your own saliva, which has a cooling effect on the body. Your emotional state can also
affect the energy in your body. If you feel calm and loving, the body can much more easily absorb
the energy. If you feel anger or disdain for yourself or your partner, you run a greater risk of
overheating. If you are overheating or feel you have more energy than you can absorb, you should
probably ejaculate. If the problem persists, try practicing the Inner Smile or the Six Healing Sounds
described in Taoist Ways to Transform Stress into Vitality, or contact a Healing Tao Instructor.

The Taoist ideal is to ejaculate as infrequently as you can, but every man can and should refrain from ejaculating for a
period of time suited to him. In the words of Su Nü, "One must measure one's own strength and ejaculate accordingly.
Anything else is simply force and foolishness." Your strength depends on your age, your health, your state of mind, and
your willpower.

Sun Ssu-miao, one of the leading physicians of ancient China recommended that men attain good health and longevity by
ejaculating twice a month, as long as they ate healthily and exercised. He also offered the following more specific
guidelines.

A man at 20/30/40/50 can ejaculate once every 4/8/10/20 days.
A man at sixty should no longer ejaculate.

Cheers, Mart

The forum's experiencing problems right now but I can still post, so life goes on.

An update: I recently bought the Hypnaerosession CD, definitely worth the money. "Continuing Your Journey" makes for a nice background listening experience and I've been listening to that and other tracks I've downloaded for a while, but I finally took about an hour and a half to follow Alana's guided instructions on the first CD and I'm amazed how well it went. I'm pretty sure I got a mini-O here, just a few seconds long but I could feel the buildup in tension in my prostate and I was moaning uncontrollably for probably 6-7 seconds. This is a sensation I haven't felt for years now! All my necessary muscles felt totally relaxed but I could feel that something was tense and growing more so, but I didn't care because it felt so good...it turns out the muscle I was feeling was actually my prostate. So chalk that up as another important milestone that I'm happy to have reached. I don't think that the Hypnaerosession genuinely hypnotized me (and I listened without headphones so I probably wasn't getting the full effect there) but it definitely helped me sink into a deeper more relaxed state and that is where the magic happened.

Of course right afterward my brain kicked into full analysis mode and I lost the state of mind that I needed. But I've learned enough to know that it's not about opening the floodgates, my progress is more like watching waves come up the beach.

I'd like to revisit this because the more I practice prostate massage the more I understand that relaxation really is a big key.  One thing that Aneros has taught me is that I'm incredibly tense most of the time and don't even realize it.  I was watching a movie earlier this evening and noticed it there too and had to make a conscious effort to relax myself. Once I did I could feel the blood pulsing in my prostate as well as legs and other parts of my lower body, in rhythm with my heartbeat. 

Now it seems that the mantra "Just relax" really didn't teach me much, I had to find out for myself what it meant physically.  What I really needed to relax was my PC and anal muscles; it's made all the difference.  Having a foreign object in my ass, the initial reflex is to clamp down on it tight, so upon insertion it's my first priority to relax those sphincters, and then to relax the PC muscle.  I've found that once I do that the Aneros will start to move on its own; this movement makes me reflexively clamp down with my PC muscle which stops the movement. Ironically, relaxation is quite an active and ongoing activity, but once I can properly relax both PC and sphincter muscles the sensations can really build quickly.

I realize that none of this is new insight but what I'd read before took a long time to click with me so hopefully articulating it in a way that makes sense to me will also strike a chord with others who are struggling. 

I also think that chronic tensing of my nether region muscles has given me mild hemorrhoids over the last decade, though I never went to a doctor about it.  The last few months I feel much less discomfort due to regular Aneros practice (and not even the Peridise set...yet).  As well, my anal area seems more tight and toned tan it has in the last year or so; I guess the workout has been good for me!  My next goal is to be more mindful about when I'm tensing the muscles in question so that I can consciously relax to the point that that is the new norm. 

Well guys I keep thinking about this post and keep trying to relax more.  It's been incredibly slow going for me and honestly this year I haven't been riding as much as I have previously.  But I will say that when I want it, I want it.  And I think I'm making progress, however slow it takes.  So the more that I can not reflexively clamp down and just be relaxed and OK with something moving in my asshole, the better!

I came to the same conclusion. My reflexive tension gets in the way of involuntaries, and even holds the aneros at the wrong angle (preventing forward pivoting). But since the tension is reflexive, it easily flies under the radar. And to add confusion, it sometimes feels good to tense that way (at least initially), but the problem is, it doesn't release on its own. I had a really good session just concentrating on babysitting this tension, and making my only goal to release it every time it happens. It seems like a good place to focus attention on too, just in terms of "getting into my body", which I also have a problem doing.

@clenchy your name says it all!  Like you I think my sessions recently have been all about putting focus on my rectum and concentrating on relaxation in that area.  I do tend to keep a lot of tension in & around my pelvic floor that I've been working on loosing.

Posted by: @faith-manages

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@clenchy your name says it all!

Yeah I think I knew it even back when I first registered here. :/
Sometimes it takes years to realize how true something really is.

Posted by: @faith-manages

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Like you I think my sessions recently have been all about putting focus on my rectum and concentrating on relaxation in that area.  I do tend to keep a lot of tension in & around my pelvic floor that I've been working on loosing.

I guess different people have different levels of unconsciously-held tension. I've been internally high-strung since I was a kid. I always relate to Tweak from South Park. I haven't found ignoring tension to be enough, I have to actively seek it out and release it manually. Maybe that practice would become something automatic, I don't know.

@clenchy here's hoping, and same for me!