Mental/physical fact or fiction

I do not particularly like the Forum as a medium or the expectation that somebody who writes into it needs to deliver up something meaningful or unique. Unfortunately, it is all we have since elaborated, public discussions about people sticking things up their asses are not commonplace. We do not have actual communities, so this virtual one will have to do the trick.

@Tommygunn I hold you in highest regard. Your accounts are honest, revealing, point toward a productive use of Aneros devices and foreshadow a state of being that renders them extraneous.

I think, however, that we need to entertain the possibility we are in fact very different from one another. On one level, we look uniform like the ants that crawl out of the small mounds we kick. But physically, we are different only by fractions of millimeters, for example, the P-tab position on Helix Syn may not hit everybody’’s sweet spot out-of-the-box. The end result is huge for some folks who don’’t measure up. Still more significantly, developmentally we are different by feet and yards, for example, victims of sexual abuse and repressive regimes concerning sexual expression clench at critical moments. The end result—s— (feelings of helplessness or worthlessness when everyone else is experiencing superultra O’s—) is debilitating and final. All of these might be in play, every session, every contraction.

Something is indeed wrong, obvious from the outside. Fixable? Only after sifting through one’s relationship with one’s own body and other bodies. Only after feeling again patiently and fearlessly each outrage, each piece of psycho-sexual bullying, each category-mistake passed along in thinking about the world we live in. This is a big task, especially for people who are striking out on their own for the first time.

A mechanistic view of the interaction muscle groups, nerve trunks and external stimuli does not capture the exquisite complexity of each unique individual. I know this sounds squishy soft and indulgent. Anything wrong with that?

So,if the post is describing ultimate super-o success,simply by doing physical tasks ‘by the numbers’,which is what I see when I read it,how is it,some people have went years feeling nothing at all? Some here say a decade in fact to feel a simple p-wave.Yet some have the game kicked in a week or two.Surely if you follow this post to the letter,surely SOMETHING should have happened,perhaps not a super-o,but something to spur on belief and motivation to eventually reach the goal,at least in months,not years..
Is the mental stuff fact or fiction,power of suggestion maybe? Or is it the physical bit that’s fact or fiction?

I've thought about this quite a lot. I think that you can't have one without the other. I wish I had something more substantive to share.

I think it does come down, in one respect, to how you approach life. I believe that if you are resistant to change in other aspects of your life, then there could be something deep down in your subconscious, be it from your formative years or whenever, that may block or slow down change. I read that several members here have had limited or even no results, but when they partook in a little weed, they encountered some amazing results. When their inhibitions had been lowered to the level that today's great weed can accomplish, they're bypassing subconscious roadblocks. And once they start to gain some understanding of the pleasure, these roadblocks in some cases, begin to erode, either through continued partaking, or allowing the positive experience, or both, to set them on a better path.
For example, my ex would not be supportive of my journey, because she would feel threatened that something was taking her place. She was never interested in toys for herself, nor much in the way of exploring herself. At least not in my presence.
With us straight pointers, there is always that taboo in the back of our minds that anything anal is gay. That is an extremely difficult thing to wash from your belief system. I'm not gay or bi or bi-curious, but I've been around the sun enough times now to not worry about how others feel about sex, as long as they're good and decent loving people. But, to be completely honest, I do turn my eyes when two guys are kissing on TV. I hang out with gay men and lesbians and we love each other dearly, but I still haven't completely washed my soul clean. Someday I will, and I continually strive for that day. But perhaps, some members have something like that holding them back, or past experiences in life.
There's another group of people in life who are always pessimistic about new experiences. (the ones who try, and get past the prejudices and run through the fields joyously singing in ecstasy are a joy to behold) But as with everything in life, there will always be doubting Thomas's who won't be swayed
I do also believe it's possible that some are not physically able to be rewired. I feel extremely lucky that I think that my ground and 2 hot wires were hooked up and it didn't take much to get the neutral hooked up and away I went. But for a very few, there may not even be a conduit. We see evidence in palsy victims, or Parkinson's where the wiring or connect ability are compromised or deteriorating.
It's a deep and convoluted topic, and I wish I had a better way of expressing myself. I feel like I'm just touching the edges here in getting my ideas out.

@Tommygunn , I was agreeing with most of what you had to say up until...

So where are people going wrong, it must be something obvious and fixable.

I agree with both @rollingalong & @Shadow66, the problems men incur on this journey are often far from obvious. To the extent they are fixable is problematic as well. I have long maintained that to gain success with these Aneros massagers is more than 90% a mental journey, firstly, learning about and listening to the obscure language of your own body. This forum does provide many creative ideas for solving the physical obstacles men face but we are only able to minimally address the complex psychological obstacles our members incur.

@CaveOfMystery 's thread Quick and Dirty Path to the Super-O is a well written post delineating a set of instructions which have helped (and will continue to help) many men make progress in their journey but like most posts of suggested techniques it won't work for every man. Physiologically, men are remarkably similar and that is why the Aneros massagers, remarkably, work well for most men, even allowing for differing usage techniques. However, psychologically we men are a very diverse lot. In the post Identifying Obstacles to Progress 8 of the 12 identified obstacles are psychological in nature. These types of obstacles have no easy step by step instruction sets to overcome them, nor is it likely they ever will. Each man needs to work through his group of obstacles in a manner unique to him. Some men simply will not attempt to solve the deeper psychological issues at hand and thus they will fail to make much progress.
Good Vibes to You !

I think that words are just a means to communicate but they aren't the actual message. You make a translation of it based on what you know and past experiences. That is why I think that you need to find a way of thinking or reading that resonates with you. It's also why I think it's more important to listen to your body and to keep things you read in the back of your mind as an interesting idea instead of taking it too literally.
I believe the mind and body are one and you should work on both but if I had to pick one that is more 'truthful' I like to go with the body.

I think it's difficult to say anything about a person who has been having trouble with this hobby for a long time. It could be hang up's, trauma or just a rigid way of thinking. Either way, I think the power to get over that is by changing the way you think, introspection and love. I've had my own share of shit I needed to deal with and know how difficult this can be and how it can be felt in sexual activities and intimacy, especially when they require vulnerability and surrendering.

I think It's good not to get tied up too much within a system and dogmatics but to stay open-minded about everything.
The posts that have worked for me have mostly been written in a more abstract way and deal with an idea or a way of thinking. With the way that I write, I also try to change the way that a person thinks instead of giving them something more practical. I know that this might be frustrating (maybe even harsh) to read for some but I hope that it works for others.
This is also how I deal with life in general and how I am. I like philosophy and spirituality, have studied journalism. I'm sceptical towards religion, politics or science. I don't like it when someone claims to have found the way.

@rumel Your Identifying Obstacles post is very good. I think that it's hard for men, in general, to really look at themselves and deal with emotions. Thinking that is why they fail to make progress is a harsh truth I think and I hope also an eye-opener.

There is no particular alluding to today’s posts advising meditation type relaxation,chakras,mantras,Taoist etc. Nor any particular warnings of having expectations and the like.

I have been reading this forum since a few years before my stated join date and this has always been there as far as I know. Many of the things that I have learned and say have come from the old forum.

That post you mention is a bullshit post. Why? because it worked specific to them and those anatomically perhaps mentally aligned with the poster. It often states far too much about how it 'will work' not as something to try and as a result can fill you with false hope and expectation.

@rollingalong @rumel @buryniceusername @Shadow66 @Mitaru @the_f

Whoops Hit post by mistake 🙂
I get what ppl say about issues such as depression,abuse,Illness etc But unless it’s offered up,we can only assume whoever is posting has an overall clean bill of health.
I think if you feel pleasure from masturbation and/or sex,then there is no reason why you can’t get pleasure from your Aneros journey.
I know I’m looking at it with a simplistic view,but sometimes simple is best,maybe we are making complications that shouldn’t be there. Some say a struggler isn’t open,or cannot accept change,but if you buy and Aneros and stick it in your butt,I think your pretty open to the journey..After all,they are on the hunt for what they’ve read Aneros can achieve pleasurewise..
I just wonder what can be done to speed things up or even get them started so foundations can be layed to build their journey on.. The mental stuff gets a big shout,and if it really is virtually all mental,why bother with kegels and the likes of q+d path,which are physical,I wonder are ppl focusing on mental too much? Or even focusing on physical too much,see,if Aneros didn’t reach some prostates,they could still progress with a-less,but they aren’t.. Perhaps mitaru is onto something,maybe it’s all taken too seriously. That post is really good @rumel ,maybe your right,perhaps some cannot be helped,what’s marts motto thing? We save ourselves or something like that..

@The_Fury 😉 I knew you were gonna say that;)

Perhaps mitaru is onto something,maybe it’s all taken too seriously.

I take writing on this forum seriously because I'm always afraid of being misunderstood or saying something stupid. I don't take that attitude into my own practice.
I don't like to say that something is right or wrong but I like to comment on your question on doing kegels. I know I'm probably going to offend some people by saying this but I don't think that doing kegels is needed and I don't do them. I had success with the Aneros before I even knew what it was. I thought it was something girls did after pregnancy.
I view them as an isometric hold of a very small muscle group. I tried it years ago and felt that they did nothing. I also don't like doing them. I'm probably wrong here knowing how many of you guys do them but I simply don't want to bother.

I do believe in things like heavy squatting, leg pressing or deadlifting and I always clench my abbs and pc muscles pretty hard trying to raise or lower the bar. I workout my entire body to make it strong and balanced. I like to believe that I don't need to do kegels because I'm strong already from the years of lifting.
I believe in yoga for the flexibility of my back and joints and the flowing of energy. I see both as a yin/yang type of deal and they bleed into each other. One is gentle, the other is pushing the limits. I take physical exercise seriously but keep it outside of Aneros play. I meditate, read or practise mindfulness to work on and calm my mind.

When it comes to Aneros play, I like to keep things simple and minimalistic by not incorporating anything and relying on nothing to do it. I believe that you already know everything that is needed if you can just find a way to let it happen. When I feel unbalanced or unsuccessful with it I don't look into my Aneros practise for answers.

@Mitaru you worry about what you say too much ;).

“When it comes to Aneros play, I like to keep things simple and minimalistic by not incorporating anything and relying on nothing to do it. I believe that you already know everything that is needed if you can just find a way to let it happen.”

^ This is a great point,maybe we’ve given ourselves too much to do,all the physical,all the mental,maybe the brain is saturated with all the ‘info’ needed to have progress. Last night I realised just how simple the q+d path is.

@rollingalong Just getting back to you..nah not soft or indulgent,well written reply,like many on here,it’s only me who writes like 5 year old. 🙂

I agree with @rollingalong . Every person is so different, physiologically and psychologically. This is something I learned through sexual relationships with women, and what it takes them to have an orgasm. Some need their clit rubbed gently and indirectly, others need it rubbed hard and directly, others can only cum in reverse cowgirl, others through anal sex, others need a loving relationship, others can only get off on a one night stand, others need to be slapped hard in the face, yet others need to slap you in the face... it astounds me every time I meet a new partner, how different her needs are from the rest of the women I've known. So imagine if all these women were to read a guide on how to have a fool-proof orgasm, having never had one before-- let's say, rub your clit counter-clockwise for 20 minutes with regular breathing and while listening to recordings of babbling brooks-- how many would actually have an orgasm? Not the woman who needs deep penetration, nor the one who needs a loving relationship. The prostate is just as mysterious as the female G-spot in that it can't be seen and is difficult to explore with your own fingers. All the techniques people present on this forum are their own, that work for their specific bodies and minds. After one finds the techniques -- both physical and mental-- that work for them, the other techniques presented here by forum members become more clear. But until then, the novice user is sort of shooting in the dark looking for sensations that they don't yet know.

@Mitaru you worry about what you say too much ;).

...:)

A little gasp of old poetry for y'all:

What is the price of experience? Do men buy it for a song?
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No, it is bought with the price
Of all a man hath, his house, his wife, his children.
Wisdom is sold in the desolate market where none come to buy
And in the wither'’d field where the farmer plows for bread in vain.

It is an easy thing to triumph in the summer’s sun
And in the vintage and to sing on the wagon loaded with corn.
It is an easy thing to talk of prudence to the afflicted,
To speak the laws of prudence to the houseless wanderer,
To listen to the hungry raven’s cry in wintry season
When the red blood is fill’d with wine and with the marrow of lambs.

from "The Four Zoas" by William Blake

@divine_oblivion IMO this is a spot on description on whats actually going on!

Well we aren’t women :p..Is there is zero point to the forum? If all us men are so very different,then anything anyone has posted here is specific to them and them alone,and useless to the rest of us. Is it just a case of..figure your own stuff out for yourself?

Damn straight. C'mon, @Tommygunn, that's how you live: listening to what's out there and, then, making your own call. I do not think I have misread your postings.

Isn't that how you do it: gathering all the information you possibly can, listening to all of the "do this to get that" advice, sitting on it for a couple days, doing a harrowing dry-run in your dreams that make you snap to sweating. and, in the end, doing what occurs to you in the moment as the best thing for you to do? Listening and gathering information is the very foundation of figuring out what to do next. The Forum and the Blogs really put us to the test.

@Tommygunn That's the approach I take these days -> "Every man for themselves".

The problem of the posts such as being discussed in this thread, such as the Quick and Dirty Path, and the Identifying Obstacles, is that it is very easy to see them as "feel good" posts that chronicle the successes of those lucky enough to have experienced the lovely things that the Aneros experience promises.

Given that sentence above, the suggestions and experiences therein are purely aspects that have allowed a *specific* person to reach that Aneros experience, and is in no way transferrable to another individual.

Anyone who is struggling on the path, has to also struggle with the terms that the likely reply anyone is able to offer on the forum and in the chatroom as a way of assistance, would either be:
1) giving advice that the individual is not doing something correctly, such that they have obstacles, as identified in some specific individuals, or
2) told that they need more patience, and that like true love, would take and undisclosed amount of time and personal contentment in order to have success.

Further issues ahead in our journey is that there is no formal semantics that allows us to have a formal language to describe our sensations, which by very nature, are very personal and individual. As an example, how would you respond to these questions such that you could accurately and precisely convey the answers:
What is a "p-wave"?
How does it feel like, to you?
How do you know if it is happening to you?

We cannot share this knowledge, just as @divine_oblivion observed.

I have never been satisfied by any explanation of what a p-wave is, or what it feels like. In my 4.3 years of using Aneros, I don't even know if I have ever had one.

How could an Expert, explain to a Novice or a Struggler, how to proceed:
1) in the mental aspects?
2) in the physical aspects?

To simply say, as an example, "insert a thin curved dildo and rub in the area towards your bladder / prostate" does not seem enough. But neither is it enough to say "just relax, think of the oceans, meditate, open chakras". And after a long while of struggling, it becomes easier and easier to become convinced that the Aneros experience is not real. After all, this is all taking place on the Internet, and the Internet is co-habited by Internet Trolls too.

@rollingalong @lonewolf8
maybe i just have a black and white mind. I think it’s a shame ppl post that they have had zero from their Aneros journey for years,I think how can that be really,if you get pleasure from masturbation or sex,then you can get it from Aneros.
I think the posts are transferable,I’ve had a-less sessions simply holding muscles to failure and feeling them snatch,as described in said post,it does exactly what it says on the tin. Mayfields posts too,kegels plus breath works too..Imo just about everything I’ve read here works to some degree.
And even if the massager doesn’t reach which I don’t totally buy,why can’t progress be made a-less? There’s lots of guys here don’t even bother with the toys anymore,they are flat out a-less.
On,and if you strum a nipple,everyone says they get a tingle/rush/good feeling in their pelvic region,that’s a p-wave,same as you get during sessions and kegel routines.
I don’t think they are hard to classify.
But maybe your spot on wolf,maybe it is every man for himself,maybe the leave no man behind should be reserved for the military.

maybe i just have a black and white mind.

I seriously doubt that, but you may be stuck with the perception of only 50 shades of grey when in actuality there are an infinity of shades

I think it’s a shame ppl post that they have had zero from their Aneros journey for years, I think how can that be really, if you get pleasure from masturbation or sex, then you can get it from Aneros.

It is sad so many men struggle to overcome the obstacles they know about. It is equally sad they may forever struggle with the obstacles they can not see or refuse to acknowledge. It does not necessarily follow that a man who enjoys sex must also be able to enjoy an Aneros.

I think the posts are transferable...Imo just about everything I’ve read here works to some degree.

Ah, if only that were true, you are one of the fortunate men who has made rapid progress with apparent ease so you are naturally biased to believe this should be true for others but it simply isn't true for all men.

And even if the massager doesn’t reach which I don’t totally buy, why can’t progress be made a-less? There’s lots of guys here don’t even bother with the toys anymore, they are flat out a-less.

I am not convinced you can get to a Super-O through a practice devoid of prostate stimulation. The 'tantric training wheels' description for Aneros use is well earned. I seriously doubt I could have or would have gotten to a Super-O without the applied knowledge of the veterans who preceded me here.

On, and if you strum a nipple, everyone says they get a tingle/rush/good feeling in their pelvic region,...

I don't say that, in fact, my responses to physical stimuli vary greatly depending on my psychological state at the time. I need time and a conducive environment to reach the mind state where certain physical stimuli are perceived as pleasurable, otherwise the same stimuli may be distractive or even irritating if I'm engaged in other desired activities.

...maybe it is every man for himself...

Yes it is but this forum exists to lend a helping hand to those members who are struggling to find a way forward in their journey. I certainly hope and believe I've helped a few members along the way, otherwise, I've just wasted hundreds of hours over the past 11+ years.
Good Vibes to You !

Things I've been thinking about today upon reading this thread:

Any one of who has succeeded in having prostate orgasms will have trouble pinpointing the technique that worked for them. That is, maybe we all know what technique we were using the first time we had a prostate orgasm (I personally have forgotten what I did, and it was only 5 months ago... I think I've scrambled my circuits too many times since!), but that isn't indicative of a single technique that is foolproof, for us or for anyone else. Because we live in a linear reality, any knowledge we gain is in accumulation with previous knowledge. I was one of the lucky ones, in that it took me only about 10 sessions before I started having orgasms. But in that time I was spending 2 hours a day reading about prostate massage techniques (on this forum) and even more time listening to my body, in addition to my 2 hour sessions. And that isn't counting years of Alexander Technique (a body listening technique for posture and well-being, that introduced me to involuntary contractions of muscles years ago in a very non-sexual way) and a rather out-of-the-ordinary sex-life (anal play wasn't new to me, nor was hours-long gentle stimulation of non genital body parts). So the moment I had my first orgasm, whatever technique I used to achieve it was actually compounded with days, months, years and even decades of "practice", of assimilation of techniques and ideas. Could it go back as far as the way my mother caressed and coddled me as a baby? Probably... It's like when you walk in at the end of a movie: it only makes sense if you have seen the rest.

I think the idea of previous knowledge accumulation accelerating new knowledge assimilation holds for a lot of things in life. A polyglot will learn a new language faster than a monoglot. An athlete will pick up new sports faster than a non-athlete. A seasoned musician will learn a new instrument faster than a novice... The question then is, what creates the psychological and physiological foundation necessary for prostate play to lead to orgasms? Personally I think it is body awareness and sensibility to physical stimuli, but if anyone knew the answer, there would be a lot fewer people struggling.

@Tommygunn I am heterosexual, so I unfortunately have no way of knowing the diversity of men's sexuality except through other peoples' accounts, which is I why I used women as an example. But when talking about male sexuality with women and gay men, I am told again and again that men are incredibly diverse, despite what pop culture would lead us to believe. I think if I described in detail the sort of physical and mental sexual stimulation I enjoy, it would be different than every one else on this forum, not because I alone am different, but because we are all different. As men we have been taught from a young age to be emotionless soldiers, to suppress our tears of sorrow and moans of pleasure. The more we abandon the fetters society imposes upon us, doff our uniforms and forget about what others think of us, the more it is clear that every single one of us men is unique.

The diversity of accounts on this forum can only be a good thing. If accounts have gotten more and more psychological/spiritual over the years, perhaps it is because many of the physical techniques have been accounted for, and the psychological techniques are as infinite as our minds are creative.

@lonewolf8 Brings up a good point that has irked me since the beginning of my journey. A lot of the pleasure I experience does not fall into the terminology put forth by previous members. I have no idea what a P-wave refers to. The difference between a mini-O and a super-O to me is not clear, as I have had orgasms that could be classified as one or the other, but also everything in between. That said, I am not against having terms for everything, whether they are things I am capable of feeling or not, and I think there should even be more proposed terminology (like a name for the insane dry orgasm I get from having the head of my penis pinched hard or vigorously stimulated, or names for each of the variety of transcendental states that come from tickling, properly applied pain, or well-done domination/submission/role-play). But I guess it is very difficult to name sensations when each of us feels things so drastically differently. The vagueness of the dictionary definition of "orgasm" attests to that...