I'm not sure if I truly know what an Orgasm is

Sorry if it's a sin to double-post, but I have some new musings, and editing my previous post wouldn't bring it back to the first page so people could see it.

I've tried the nipple play and PC contractions without aneros again a few times, and it's been great.

Today when finishing off with traditional ejaculatory orgasm I tried leaving my penis alone as soon as I pass the point of no return, and had a really good hands free ejaculation, and when I stroked my penis again after the ejaculation was over it produced an incredible pleasurable feeling for a moment.

It was sort of like I'd separated the orgasm and ejaculation but in the opisite direction.

First I had the ejaculation and all the feelings that go with that. PC muscles contracting, feeling the cum pumping out through my penis.

And then had the orgasm afterwards, which was pretty much just an intense, almost unbearably strong sensation of pleasure through my penis and groin.

By the power of the triple post, I use forum necromancy to resurrect this ancient thread of mine!
Or in other words, I've got new information to share and I thought this old thread was the best place for it.

It's been months since my last post on this topic, and I've only been continuing my investigations in a fairly haphazard fashion.

I've been having a few aneros-free sessions in which I do all the stuff I would do in an aneros session, but with no aneros, and they've been good. Almost as good as with the aneros and no preparation or clean-up involved.

Two main observations to report today.

1. When I have these aneros-free sessions, they're great, but when I decide to finish with a traditional ejaculatory orgasm I have mixed results. Sometimes I have a really intense and extended ejaculation with orgasm, but other times, I end up with a mediocre ejaculation and minimal or entirely absent orgasm.
The defining factor seems to be how well I can connect the prostate/nipple pleasure to the penile pleasure.
If I can get them both running well and synchronised I get wonderful results, but if I get it wrong somehow (And I'm still not sure exactly how), the prostate/nipple pleasure seems to fall away, and the penile pleasure feels sort of dull and heavy.

2. Following on from the previous observation, I discovered the other night that under some circumstances I can actually continue the prostate/nipple pleasure experience after ejaculating.
This is how it went:
I had gone to bed fairly late, and had to get up pretty early in the morning, so I didn't want to spend too much time on my session.
I spent about half an hour doing prostate/nipple pleasure stuff without the aneros, and it was all very good, but looking at the clock I decided it was really time I got to sleep so that I wouldn't be too tired in the morning.
I proceeded into traditional masturbation with nipple play included and fairly quickly reached ejaculation, but the accompanying orgasm wasn't much to speak about.
Feeling a bit cheated by this sub-standard orgasm, I decided to do some more contractions and nipple stimulation and I found that my body was still just as charged and interested in prostate/nipple pleasure as it had been before ejaculating.
I ended up having a little argument in my head, with one part of me saying "Oooh, look, this is all still active and ready to go", and the other part saying "No, I have to get to sleep, it's so late. If I wait too long the sedative effect of the ejaculation will wear off and I'll have trouble getting to sleep".
This went on for probably a good ten minutes with me stopping and starting the contractions and nipple play in accordance with the argument.
Eventually I had to crack down on myself and insist that I must sleep.

The Discovery Health link in Rumel's post (page #1) rates Gold Nugget status. Quick search in the Wiki didn't identify it.

This seemed general enough to have broad face value to both men and women, not excluding one or the other. Specific enough to help guys distinguish orgasm from ejaculation. 💡

Possibly a "best read" for us heavily wired guys who come here from long-term monogamous relationships. Possibly not as valuable to more loosely wired guys still appreciative of a broader range of experience and sensation.

I am also waiting to achieve my first prostate orgasm but am confident that when it happens I will know it has. Just think back to your first penile orgasm/ejaculation, for me I was age 13 and despite months of masturbating to no effect I knew the build up and the event itself to that one was different.

I do remember, very clearly, my very first orgasm/ejaculation(dry as I was only 7-8 years old). I also remember masturbating before my first orgasm. I remember feeling pleasure, nothing more than "this feels good" pleasure. It was one night that I wasn't very tired, I had a little extra time to enjoy this pleasure. It started out the same; the middle was the same, just as it always was before. Ahhh, there is that nice pleasure that makes me feel oh so good. What made this time different was I did it longer than I had before. I was laying there enjoying the sensations of pleasure when something different started happening. It felt great so I continued. Interestingly, I continued at the same pace and vigor as I always had up to that point and in the past. I had no expectations; I didn't know anything else was going to happen. The pleasure increased as something built and built. I went through all of the motions (100% to the T) of a traditional orgasm/ejaculation (without any fluid obviously) and the pleasure weaned off just as it does today. I have my doubts about being able to have multiple orgasms in this way just because there isn't any fluid release. I don't feel that made any difference at all.

I remember feeling so incredibly excited and happy with my new discovery, I must have glowed for days. A few days later, I remember thinking no matter what happens (in general), nothing will get me down or feeling sad because of ....hmmm, what was that again? I forgot what it was! That incredible thing that just happened in my life. I don't have a clue what it is, but I know nothing will get me feeling down ever again. Now what was that.... oh yea, I remember, it was that 🙂

To this day, it makes me happy that I remember my first orgasm/ejac(pre) along with my thoughts and feelings with a pure and innocent mind. It wasn't until later in life (enter religion) that my mind was tainted about this wonderful gift. Although that didn't stop me, it just made me feel guilty about it.

My opinion is that if you are not sure whether you have achieved a mini or super-o then you haven't.

I’m not so sure about this. After some much needed guidance from rumel in chat, reading this thread, and reflecting on what I've experienced; I think I have seen the top of a mountain or two. There are many mountain tops to be seen, I guess I wasn't impressed enough with what I saw and told myself this isn't a mountain.

Fuzzy, have you discovered the difference between orgasm and ejaculation to satisfaction in your mind?

Enjoy the journey,
Marty

Fuzzy, have you discovered the difference between orgasm and ejaculation to satisfaction in your mind?

Enjoy the journey,
Marty

I'm still not entirely satisfied. I think I'll need to keep investigating until I experience orgasm without ejaculation at all. That is, assuming I can identify it when I do.

Reading back over the posts in this topic, I noticed ArticWolves' post on the first page.

A simple explanation of an orgasm is just think of a woman having an orgasm. Her PC muscle contracts involuntarily while she's having an orgasm (Cumming). That's basically what we're doing. We're experience an orgasm more on terms of what a female experiences. It's a hard concept to understand because we men are so used to ejaculating and calling it an orgasm.

Just think in terms of a feminine perspective when you're thinking of the word orgasm. It's the easiest thing we can relate to. Go watch all those videos of women masturbating and watch their breathing patterns, tightening/tensing of muscles, pay attention to their whole body through the entire process that leads them to orgasm and through it. Notice how every time when she is having an orgasm her PC muscle is involuntarily contracting.

That my friends is the same thing we can have. No you're not going to ejaculate or have the regular orgasm you're used to. Yes, you're going to have the sensation that you are ejaculating (Involuntary Control of PC Muscle Contracting) and it may even feel like your going to erupt like Krakatoa! Just imagine building yourself towards Krakatoa. Best part is you can keep building upon building upon building and experiencing multiple orgasms in a session (Multi-Orgasmic).

You're going to experience something entirely different; something you have never experienced before in your life (I like to call it a full body orgasm). However, once you experience it you'll never forget it and come back for more!!

With that in mind, and the ideas from Pan's Fantasy Method thread, I had another session last night and I think I got very close to it a couple of times.

I had feelings of warmth and tingling in my anal region accompanied by some gentle involuntary pulsing or contractions. As these continued I reached a point where I felt a special twinge in my urethra like the point of no return when about to ejaculate, but as soon as I noticed it, it disappeared and the other sensations receded somewhat.

My guess is that I was right on the edge there, but by noticing the feeling and paying attention to it I scared it away.
Any advice on what to do at that point? Relax everything as much as possible? Make a contraction with a certain muscle?

Fuzzy this is great thread! And all you other posters as well!

As to your questions immediately above about your recent "almost" session, IMHO you are at a great juncture in your rewiring. We have several nerve systems that can carry erotic arousal and orgasmic responses. For many, part of this rewiring involves shifting more emphasis to the vagus nerve system, a wandering abdomenal back road network compared to the pudendal expressway to the standard destination...

Your "noticing", "paying (too much?) attention", "scaring it away" analysis is a direct parallel to the metaphor at KSMO of these pure orgasmic energies being like a faun timidly stepping into a clearing and the key thing is to quietly observe without consciously approaching them and scaring them away. Your thoughts on this juncture for your rewiring are very astute.

We are all different, butt that said, I would suggest when you get to that point again, try relaxing, yes, taking a deep breath and as you exhale intend and feel throughout your body a sense of opening up, of welcoming space for those energies to expand possibly into your perineum, anus, prostate, sacrum and wherever they want to go (have no expectations) just relaxing and allowing them to flower wherever in you they choose...

Visualizing your own internal opening up can be the key, again, letting your body do it, without the mind going there to watch/take charge.

all the best through this juncture of your journey you would-be wanderer! 😀

artform

Thanks for bringing this thread back up!

I'm still not entirely satisfied. I think I'll need to keep investigating until I experience orgasm without ejaculation at all. That is, assuming I can identify it when I do.

❓ In your heart, do you believe they are two different events?

Identifying orgasm is something you can already do through a T-orgasm. The trick is to take your time so each event unfolds slowly. With the extra time to experience and explore these events you can separate them out easier. I'm not suggesting the get close and stop over and over method. I suggest going slow at consistent pace for an extended time.

❓ Have you ever thought to yourself, "I can't believe I'm not cumming! (Ejaculating)," during an extended traditional masturbation session? I suggest "extended" would be 20-30 minutes minimum and 50-90 minutes max (you can go longer, but it doesn't seem to help) as a time frame for this.

What made me say this to myself was I was well past the point of no return for twice as long as I had ever been. I was waiting for the ejaculation reflex to start and it just held out. It blew my mind! It was this exact moment I knew in my heart, orgasm was not the same as ejaculation. I no longer believed everything I felt up to that point, had anything to do with ejaculation (although the pump was priming or building). The reflexive pumping action of ejaculation was held off long enough for it to click in my mind.

When the ejaculation reflex did start the pleasure did spike, but was almost too much from where I just was, comfortably well past the point of no return before ejac began. It was the extra time I spent here that opened my eyes. I thought if I could get 10-15 seconds of this I would never need to have a traditional orgasm again! The moment I'm talking about lasts a half a second, if that, when I'm rushing or going at a fair/normal rate. If I slow down, take my time and get into it, this moment can last 1-2 seconds. These are usually the vocal, spine tingling, "Oh yea, that was a good one" traditional male orgasm and ejaculation. I held on to this moment for 3-4 seconds when my eyes were opened.

Practicing this method goes completely against one commandment laid down for the aneros. That is, if you are not chasing and hunting down your T-orgasm, you're not doing it correctly. If the level of stimulation (alone) you are feeling is enough to get you to t-orgasm, that level is too much, slow it down. It helps to have a bullet vibrator with an elastic band of some type to keep everything in place and keep the level of stimulation constant. Don't worry about going limp, the mind is still aroused. Queue up a few hours of porn and make a night of it.

❗ Again what I'm suggesting is only for those who deep down in their hearts are having trouble believing orgasm and ejaculation are different, or for those that need an experience to that effect.

Enjoy the Journey,
Marty

Thanks for the advice there Marty.
I've had similar experiences to what you describe.

Years ago, before I knew anything about the Aneros, I did some investigation into male multiple orgasm, continuous male orgasm and so on, and found out about a technique that advised training up the PC muscle to be able to clench and hold at the point of orgasm to stop or delay ejaculation.
I practiced my kegels quite a lot after that, and got into the habit of clamping up my PC muscle at the point of orgasm.

I found that it did work to some degree.

I could reach orgasm and then delay the ejaculation for as long as I could keep the PC muscle clenched.
It became a routine part of my masturbatory technique and I still do it a lot even now.

For a time it was what I did every time, but then I found some advice somewhere about doing basically the opposite. Relaxing that muscle, and sort of pushing out with other muscles.
That didn't have any delaying effect on ejaculation and resulted in a significantly different feeling.

These days I do one or the other as the mood takes me.

Hey MartyB and Fuzzy

Interesting post Marty and your experiences Fuzzy. In the early 1990s I spent about a year and half or more applying Mantak Chia's Taoist techniques for male sexual energy cultivation. That is based on semen retention and developing the ability to ejaculate inwardly, backward into the uro-genital tracts.

I still slip into that response very occasionally if I slip toward a Super-T before really intending to. Similarly, mrs. a on occasion finds her female ejaculation flows inward and then expelled later mixed with some urine. When it expels directly out during her usual ejaculation, it is most definitely NOT urine, but the flowing waters of the goddess! 😀

Even after we successfully rewire to the separation of orgasm from ejaculation, the set of other alternate and original "switches" remain and, though diminished, can still be triggered by chance or by choice. 😉

all the best Fuzzy with your rewiring through this stage

artform

artform wrote

That is based on semen retention and developing the ability to ejaculate inwardly, backward into the uro-genital tracts.

Interesting artform. Any way to explain the technique you used to do this? I spent many years of my life masterbating a certain way that made it to where I would have the most intense orgasm/inward ejaculations ever (well until I learned to super O) and I could cum but no semen would come out.

Not going to go into detail right now of how I did it but it was to the point that I used this form of masterbation for nearly a decade and rarely masterbated the traditional jacking off motion except to release semen because I felt I may be damaging myself masterbating the other way. But my other way of masterbation produces an orgasm/inward ejaculation that's probably 10X stronger than a traditional ejaculation produces.

Anyway very curious of what you did to have these inward ejaculations.

artform wrote

That is based on semen retention and developing the ability to ejaculate inwardly, backward into the uro-genital tracts.

Interesting artform. Any way to explain the technique you used to do this? I spent many years of my life masterbating a certain way that made it to where I would have the most intense orgasm/inward ejaculations ever (well until I learned to super O) and I could cum but no semen would come out.

Not going to go into detail right now of how I did it but it was to the point that I used this form of masterbation for nearly a decade and rarely masterbated the traditional jacking off motion except to release semen because I felt I may be damaging myself masterbating the other way. But my other way of masterbation produces an orgasm/inward ejaculation that's probably 10X stronger than a traditional ejaculation produces.

Anyway very curious of what you did to have these inward ejaculations.

OK Billy11, I'll explain mine if you'll explain yours! 😆

Mantak Chia's book Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Sexual Energy is focused on controlling the emission of semen to minimize semen loss in solo sex and lovemaking, to have semen retained to be transmuted into Chi the healing life force energies, and to enable the male the achieve the Microcosmic Orbit of these energies up the spine through all the chakras and back down the central organs to accumulate for added later power in the lower abdomen.

Two methods are set out:
1. three fingers carefully clamping the urethra up through the perineum (don't attempt this without reading all the cautions and suggestions in Chia's book!); and
2. a full body clench focused on the same area to learn to be able the have the focused muscle strength to accomplish the same blocking of the urethra without the direct fingers pressure. Again, his book gives all the details of what muscles, related breathing patterns etc. Chia also has a more recent book The MultiOrgasmic Man, which I haven't seen, although we have his The MultiOrgasmic Couple, which I do recommend highly.

I began with the fingers, felt uncomfortable and concerned about bruising or worse injury and moved on to the focused full body clench and that worked for me. I talked a bit more about this and achieving the MCO (microcosmic orbit) in my blog: http://www.aneros.com/displayblog.php?id=3544

The more I read elsewhere, the more I got into what is now shaping up as a challenge from western science of Taoist assumptions, that ejaculation ("clearing the pipes" and the prostate in particular!) is an important positive health strategy.

My concern then was that each sperm we produce contains, along with our DNA package for delivery, a powerful chemical to dissolve the cell wall of the egg at the point of contact to enable the DNA delivery to be accomplished. Now our testicles and other parts like the seminal vesicles seem to be designed to cope with it, but I thought is it a good idea to force sperm in quantity into body parts where they are not expected (bladder etc.) where they are die and dissolve with this cell wall dissolving chemical being released? Perhaps too much of this is a factor in testicular or prostate cancer formation!?? Ergo, keep things cleared out! 😀 That, and a very strong body sense that "I WANT to let it out!" led me to abandoning retention as a preferred practice.

As I have celebrated widely here and at KSMO and The Tao Bums, Aneros and KSMO ( www.multiples.com ), Aneros and KSMO have fully enabled me to achieve, without retention!, the energies transformations, the MCO, and now MUTUAL MCO and more with mrs. a!!!, while at the same time successfully treating my BPH prostate problem in a healthy "clear the pipes" way! Hurray! 😀

OK Billy11, you're up! 😉

all the best

artform

Those of us who shoot blanks retain sperm. I've been doing it for >35yrs. Mine are all dumped into the interior of the scrotum (which was never designed to deal with stray sperm). Probably, not to worry.

Now, let me tell you about the third ear I've been growing. 👿 🙄 😮 😯

Very interesting NuBe09.

Do you have any sensations from this in/at your scrotum? Any sense of reabsorption or energizing?

I have a photo of the genetically modified lab mice growing growing replacement human ears (the pinna). So, you're in this business too? 😆

Thanks for this.

artform

Years ago, before I knew anything about the Aneros, I did some investigation into male multiple orgasm, continuous male orgasm and so on, and found out about a technique that advised training up the PC muscle to be able to clench and hold at the point of orgasm to stop or delay ejaculation.
I practiced my kegels quite a lot after that, and got into the habit of clamping up my PC muscle at the point of orgasm.

I found that it did work to some degree.

I could reach orgasm and then delay the ejaculation for as long as I could keep the PC muscle clenched.
It became a routine part of my masturbatory technique and I still do it a lot even now.

For a time it was what I did every time, but then I found some advice somewhere about doing basically the opposite. Relaxing that muscle, and sort of pushing out with other muscles.
That didn't have any delaying effect on ejaculation and resulted in a significantly different feeling.

These days I do one or the other as the mood takes me.

I went through much the same process, using clenching to hold back ejaculation, and it does help to extend pleasure, but there are times when I just couldn't hold back. But then I discovered relaxing and pushing out, almost as if you were tying to urinate, could help lessen the refractory period for me. For a few years, I worked around the corner from a gentleman's club, and spent far too many lunch hours getting lap dances. By pushing out at the point of no return, my ejaculate would stream out rather than spurt, and I found that if I could hold that "pushing out" feeling through my ejaculation, I would often stay erect and be able to orgasm again within minutes. The first time I tried this technique with lap dances, my first ejaculate/stream wet my pants and the dancer acknowledged and backed off for the rest of the song. But before the song ended, I knew I wanted her to continue and asked her not to stop. I was still hard and was able to shift my "package" to the other side of my pants. She continued dancing and my energy level was like I hadn't already cum. I knew she would bring me over the top again and within 6-7 minutes, I came again -- I wasn't able to relax through it and had a normal ejaculatory orgasm. She was surprised as she now felt the wet spot on the other side of my pants, and all within a few minutes. Needless to say, I visited her fairly often after that.

I'm a newbie with the Aneros and have only tried a few sessions. So far, I haven't gone over the edge into Super-O but I'm starting to feel that it's getting closer. I'm trying different relax/contract feelings and have had a couple of hands-free orgasms, so far, without my penis being very hard. I hope I on the right path.

Very interesting NuBe09.

Do you have any sensations from this in/at your scrotum? Any sense of reabsorption or energizing?

artform

None, either physical or psychological. Just the joy and thrill of having exactly the size of family that I desired and no fears of putting one in the hangar.

The old wives tales look like b.s. to me. I'm right in the middle of all the bell shaped curves that pertain to male sexuality. ...sickenly average.