"Book club"; anal pleasure and its challenge to gender norms

Various quotes I assembled.

Foucault views the very idea of sexuality as a form of social control—specifically, “bio-power,” which governs people by influencing how they experience their own bodies.

(…) the ancient function of the anal taboo: to naturalize distinctions and hierarchies, including those between men and women.

Suppression of knowledge is a key means of perpetuating stigma.

By obscuring men’s potential to be penetrated, the taboo against men’s receptivity fortifies these boundaries and reinforces the notion of “naturally” distinct genders with “naturally” unequal roles.

Accepting men’s capacity for anal receptivity provokes difficult questions about this model of sex and gender.

(…) are the genitals really inverse systems, or are they parallel?  This question destabilizes gender stereotypes based on the notion of men and women as opposite, complementary puzzle pieces (i.e., strong/weak, dominant/submissive, aggressive/nurturing, stoic/emotional, sex subject/sex object).

This is incredibly interesting! How did you find this article, let alone this academic journal?

I'm going trough this right now with pen and marker, and I find it's a pretty frustrating read, because the authors decided to make this about gender norms right from the go. The very first lines are about how men's refusal to accept anal pleasure is "encouraging male dominance"... Why can't male's anal pleasure be about, I don't know, MEN ?  

I'm plodding trough this paper and it's so politically charged that I'm thinking, if this is how average people are truly seeing this subject, getting mainstream acceptance is a lost cause. It's not doable. Pack your stuff, folks, we can't achieve this. 

When I'm having a session, I don't think about sticking it to the patriarchy or fighting for gender equality, I'm just hoping for a Super-O. And when I masturbate, I don't make it about dominating women. It's just very hard for me to understand things from that perspective where there is toxic masculinity at every corner, and where men playing with their butt will somehow solve this. 

Nevertheless, there are some good bits in there, such as the idea of "bio-power" as @helical already pointed out. Most of the parts focusing on masculinity as it affects men are also worth thinking about. After all, convincing men that anal play is a masculine thing to do and does not make you "less of a man" in any way is vital. I'd even argue that it makes you more of a Renaissance Man, in tune with his body, exploring life and himself and focusing inwards. 

More on this later. It's a polarizing subject, no doubt about it. But boy oh boy are these researchers dense!  

Prostate massage has nothing to do with sexuality and gender in the sense these books and theory’s would like.Nor the capacity to be penetrated in my opinion. It’s a male gland within the male body,it produces pleasure and orgasm the same,gay or straight.Females don’t have a prostate. Skenes gland or even g spot are the closest they get.  No penetration is necessary to massage the prostate.

It can be massaged with the bodies own muscles,and a well centred mind. Massaged externally via the perineum. Using a toy,or a partner is a choice. I’d class it as masturbation for single ppl,part of a sex life for couples,gay or straight.

Going down this road,in my mind actually enforces stereotypical taboo thinking rather than dispel it. If it’s linked to homosexuality and the trans community for example,then the straight guys who say it’s gay,weird or feminine aren’t actually being narrow minded,because that’s what being inferred.

Everyone has an individual perspective. If they want to feel feminine,bi,gay or straight or think they orgasm like a female,that’s fine,each man’s journey can be whatever he wants it to be. That’s not what it means to me. I’ve simply furthered my own pleasure and orgasmic capacity on my journey,found new pleasures to explore. At no point have I desired men or be penetrated by them. I haven’t felt anything different about my sexuality or gender. I still know who I am and where I belong.

Posted by: @helghast

Everyone has an individual perspective. If they want to feel feminine,bi,gay or straight or think they orgasm like a female,that’s fine,each man’s journey can be whatever he wants it to be. That’s not what it means to me. I’ve simply furthered my own pleasure and orgasmic capacity on my journey,found new pleasures to explore. At no point have I desired men or be penetrated by them. I haven’t felt anything different about my sexuality or gender. I still know who I am and where I belong.

This is a great take ! I don't feel it's right for someone else to decide that something I'm doing to myself, as an individual, in the privacy of my home, has some greater meaning that transcends the boundaries of said home. 

When I read such a loaded paper, and start to write a comment on it, I always end up scrapping everything, and thinking to myself, "the only winning move is not to play." 

@zentai

It was the same with the prostate research post,that study of the prostate would make homosexuality’more accepted’. Prostate knows no sexuality,just stimulation and all the good shit that comes from it! 

There are some things that are easy to agree with, like page 409 : 

We focus on “inclusive masculinities,” which Eric Anderson (2009) defines as masculine gender styles that reject domination, sexism, and homophobia.

That's only fair. 

Or on page 412 (emphasis mine) : 

However, in the 1981 Hite Report, fully 30% of heterosexual men and 86% of gay men reported having “tried being penetrated with a finger” (p. 574). Furthermore, “most men, of either heterosexual or homosexual experience, who ha[d] tried being penetrated said they enjoyed it"

Ok, so men who can conquer the taboos they have about anal play are rewarded, regardless of sexual orientation. Now hetero men have something in common with homosexual men, and that's how you bring taboos down, instead of playing on culture or gender war. The reverse stance where rejecting anal pleasure means you are rejecting women and homosexual men, this creates distance instead of bringing people together... 

@zentai

Posted by: @zentai

We focus on “inclusive masculinities,” which Eric Anderson (2009) defines as masculine gender styles that reject domination, sexism, and homophobia.

Whilst I agree with this,it’s a little more complicated. Some people have naturally dominant traits and personalities that they’re born with,not sure it’s fair to just reject them out of hand. A lot of work has been done on sexism and it is working,there is still a long way to go. Personally I think homophobic bias is something that an individual must deal with from within. Take racism as an example,you can be prosecuted for it now in the U.K. But just because one wouldn’t a call black guy the n word on the street,doesn’t mean one doesn’t have bias on the inside. Same goes for homophobia.

Posted by: @zentai

Ok, so men who can conquer the taboos they have about anal play are rewarded, regardless of sexual orientation. Now hetero men have something in common with homosexual men, and that's how you bring taboos down, instead of playing on culture or gender war. The reverse stance where rejecting anal pleasure means you are rejecting women and homosexual men,

Like I said,for me,prostate massage has nothing to do with sexual orientation. I don’t see it as I have something in common with gay guys. Just other guys of regardless of orientation who have also discovered the pleasures of the anal variety. Doesn’t matter to me if it’s a gay guy or a straight guy,both get fingered while receiving a blow job,sexuality irrelevant.

Posted by: @helghast

Like I said,for me,prostate massage has nothing to do with sexual orientation. I don’t see it as I have something in common with gay guys. Just other guys of regardless of orientation who have also discovered the pleasures of the anal variety. Doesn’t matter to me if it’s a gay guy or a straight guy,both get fingered while receiving a blow job,sexuality irrelevant.

Hehe maybe my message was poorly worded. For sure, if you are already "homo-indifferent", for lack of a better word, you won't find a link between anal pleasure and homosexuality. That's kind of the point, if discussion can show that some hetero men, some women, and some gay men all enjoy anal play, then it becomes much clearer that it's not a sexual orientation or gender thing, and then we can focus on the activity instead of debating all the other stuff. There is room for debate about toxic masculinity (and there's toxic feminity, too), but if we could just make prostate play be about prostate play, that would be a huge step forward. Solving the Super-O will happen MUCH sooner than solving gender equality issues, that's for sure...  

re-quoting the paper

(…) are the genitals really inverse systems, or are they parallel?

I like this snippet. And, being in the know, we've gone beyond examining the crosswalks between the originating fetal tissue and adding nuance to man goes "zing" and woman goes "zang"; we feel it where counts!

Posted by: @zentai

I don't feel it's right for someone else to decide that something I'm doing to myself, as an individual, in the privacy of my home, has some greater meaning that transcends the boundaries of said home. 

Agreed.  But some have left it as unquestioned truth, which must be Foucalt's "bio-power" acted upon them.

Posted by: @zentai

When I'm having a session, I don't think about sticking it to the patriarchy or fighting for gender equality,

Agreed! Thanks for you and @helghast cluing me into me how charged the paper is.  I just got excited about some of the other nuggets of ideas in there.

quoting the paper

... we must celebrate our own complex, ambiguous bodily sensations without relying on categories set forth by sexual ideologies.

And for this crowd, we do!

@poseidon stumbling on the paper was just random luck from Googling, or rather Duck Duck Go-ing.

@helghast not to leave you out in the quoting-fest here.  I seemed to have pickled my brains in brew this evening, and consequently I'll leave this little entry here before making little sense.  Cheers!  Thanks @zentai and @helghast both for taking a look at the paper.  I enjoyed reading through your replies.

@helical

There are good bits in the paper, but reading it, I was more begrudgingly accepting a point rather than agreeing, if this makes any sense. With a different agenda behind it, or trying to prove a different point, I'm sure I would have had a much more positive view of it. It was an interesting read, thanks for posting it, and I hope that if you stumble on other similar articles, that you will share them with us.  There is very little academic material about prostate stimulation floating around, so it's always cool to read something new.