Avoiding Kundalini Syndrome

Posted by: @zentai

Medication ? I can't see how ADD meds would not interact with a session, for example. Generally speaking, being as sober as possible is the safest thing you can do. Beyond that statement, as you said, I have little experience. 

 

Posted by: @zentai

Yep, "x" works really well. What we need to see is will "x" also potentially trigger issues. Of course, if we remove everything that has a tiny chance of doing something, then maybe there is no S-O left and we can all just jerk off normally and forget about all of this nonsense.

Yes this is the potential problem.  There are dangers, but it seems so unlikely that they will occur. Like, how many people have experienced kundalini syndrome amongst the tens of thousands (?) who play with their prostate in quasi-spiritual ways? I bet almost every one in the last 20 years with access to internet has written here, making it seem like a lot, but that it is a small fraction of a percentage of people.  Does that justify real caution to the point described above?  I think the gains of some of these practices far outweigh the possible negative effects (note: I don’t know a thing about all the chakra stuff you mention).

I find it interesting that you say kundalini syndrome OR psychosis.  You’d say it’s essentially that, in western medical jargon? Because I don’t know what kundalini is based on what I’ve read about it.

As for add meds… adderall is speed, and uppers can make you horny as fuck. My limited experience with adderall (took it twice) had me doing sexy things for hours at a time. So yes, big time interaction potential!

And yes sobriety is safer than drugs.  Just it isn’t necessarily the BETTER choice for everyone.  Because life isn’t black and white and you have to weigh gains and risks. 

Posted by: @tbob

 I am not sure I would recommend to anybody who doesn't do THC, to start for aneros.

100% agree, you'd have to get comfortable with both of them separately. 

Posted by: @tbob

I think it would be fairly safe to say that a person like myself  who has been smoking weed for 50yrs, is not likely to have bad reaction.

This makes sense. I still think the S-O itself is the principal driver of the bad outcome, so if after 50 years of smoking, something wacky does happen during a session, then it would be unfair to say that weed is the cause. 

Posted by: @tbob

I think the the fact that in my younger days I did some phsychedelic drugs, this didn't freak me right the fuck out. I can't imagine how such a thing would affect a non drug user. 

First time I tried THC, the Os came so strong that if I had no frame of reference to be able to say : "Ok, try to relax, this is just a very, very fuckin' strong Super-O that just keeps going" I would have experienced a full-on panic attack and bad trip and likely would have never smoked again. The fact I had zero frame of reference with THC did not help.  There's the drug effect, then there's the relationship you have with the experience. Whole books have been written about this and I'm ill equipped to discuss anything other than a fairly short experience with small amounts of THC. 

Posted by: @divine_o

Does that justify real caution to the point described above?  I think the gains of some of these practices far outweigh the possible negative effects (note: I don’t know a thing about all the chakra stuff you mention).

That's utilitarianism and probably the logical way to look at things. We'd rather have millions of men experiencing Super-Os even if a few hundred end up a little messed up. I can't say it does not make sense, otherwise we'd live in grass huts because building anything is dangerous, fire is dangerous, water is dangerous and so on.

If we can make things as safe as we can while still enjoying Super-Os, then to me that's the best possible outcome. Like we said on another thread (?) someone, somewhere will have a heart attack one day during a session, just like people have heart attacks having sex or just straining on the toilet. That's unavoidable. 

Even if only handful of men get bad psychological side effects, I like to think we can prevent most of these situations from happening. Whether people feel they need to do (or not do) specific things to protect themselves, that's another discussion. I really think they should. 

Posted by: @divine_o

I find it interesting that you say kundalini syndrome OR psychosis.  You’d say it’s essentially that, in western medical jargon? Because I don’t know what kundalini is based on what I’ve read about it.

If you got a bit further up the thread, there is a Wikipedia link discussing Qi-Gong deviation and what Western medicine thinks about it. In China, they treat it as a specific diagnosis, in the West the opinion is that meditation, Qi-Gong, Kundalini Yoga and the like can trigger latent mental health issues, mainly psychosis, that you already have. Is Qi-Gong deviation the same thing as Kundalini syndrome, that's anyone's guess. 

We'd have to make another thread about what I think about chakras, Kundalini and the like. Basically, I think each tradition created a language and concepts to explain things that were otherwise not possible to describe. Kundalini was about a coiled snake at the base of the spine which unfolds and goes up to your head. While we know there is no snake of light just chilling there, I experienced this feeling to the extent I felt the description was really quite close to the experience. Did I experience it this way because I knew about beforehand, quite possibly. But "knowing" what it was made things more comfortable. As for chakras, if you look at the nervous system, they make sense as bundles or concentration of activity. At the very least, the sacrum, solar plexus and brain (!) look like they have lots of stuff going on...

 Not sure if this is relevant. By what ya'll describe, these sessions seem to trancend into something spiritual, evil spiritual. What most people don't realize about meditation,Is that it is not only used for relaxation, it is also used to communicate with with other realms. And that could be whats happening to some people. These religions aren't teaching people how to meditate just so they can have a better orgasm. There to turn you into a better organism, at peace with your being, and other realms. Not greasy kid stuff. I would wager though that many of the people who have had a Kundalini bad exp., that they could sense a presence of something evil. You don't have to beleave, to have a evil exp. You may after. Many time it is only psychosis, sometime evil hides behind that. Thats all I ahve to say about that. Oh yea I'm a beleaver, I do not care if you don't. If it weren't for some of the experiences in my life I would be there with you. 

@tbob 

That's super relevant. I agree, meditation is not about orgasming longer and harder. I can be used for this, but the main purpose is self-improvement and connection with the divine.  People can believe (or even have proof) that the divine is inside them or lies in other realms, functionally, it makes little difference. Maybe both are true. One thing I 100% believe in is that Super-O practice is a form of mediation. 

Even if you are just exploring your own mind, you can run into very dirty mind sludge and other bad things. I think just having an experience that challenges your reality is enough to trigger issues. Something as simple as: 

"I work 45 hours a week, I have money, a car, a house, people like me, yet I don't feel happy. I put a small device inside me, relax a bit, and I find happiness. Is the world a lie? Is feeling that good wrong?" 

Sometimes it takes little to trigger a cascade of questions that will send you for a spin. Maybe some bad Super-O experiences are just versions of this. Jerking off never sent me there, that's for sure.  

Posted by: @tbob

You don't have to beleave, to have a evil exp.

Agreed. Same thing goes for good experiences. 

@zentai 

Posted by: @zentai

"I work 45 hours a week, I have money, a car, a house, people like me, yet I don't feel happy. I put a small device inside me, relax a bit, and I find happiness. Is the world a lie? Is feeling that good wrong?" 

You’re looking at it from outside the box. From inside my box I think the device gives you temporary respite from the unhappiness. I think you’re not happy because you have been single for a while and you’re missing the intimate connection found in a relationship with another human. Something the toy cannot mimic no matter how good an orgasm you reach. It’s not the same as reaching orgasm with someone else,holding them,building a life with them etc.

@helghast 

You're not wrong... 

This was more of a general example of a situation that could trigger questioning or maybe a kind of life crisis. Like "Does this mean I'm gay?"

You know as well as I do that a truly miserable individual will face huge hurdles trying to reach a Super-O. But I can see how a situation where you are forcing it, like you can't relax or get aroused because your life is in shambles, then you "cheat" a bit with THC, and then, the contrast between your S-O experience and where you are when you come down is much larger than it would be otherwise. Makes sense. But then it's not such a mysterious event, it's more like post-vacation depression, maybe? I bet people would have little difficulty figuring this one out: "My life is so shitty, then I get S-Os and I feel so great, then I go back to reality and I'm just sad." 

One thing is certain, we humans are quite fragile when it comes to mental equilibrium. 

@zentai

El progasm tiene la llamada pestaña kundalini...crees que este modelo sea mas propenso para ocasionar el síndrome kundalini?

@zentai

Fascinating thread this, peering into peoples minds.

“I was really, really dumb about it, made the wrong choices and I really regret it, but hey, I can't change the past. It's much better not having to deal with this in the first place.” 

“I judge myself very harshly for this, because maybe I could have avoided all the bad stuff and I would have been even further today.  To an outside observer, I would have looked no better than the Jackass crew with some of the decisions I made along the way.” 

You are very harsh on yourself, could you have made different choices? We do the best we can and when we make mistakes, if we are wise, we learn from them. I know this does not make it much easier to deal with the fallout of your “bad” choices, but your experience has rendered you a very important voice on this forum. I have learned a great deal from you and your musings and I am loath to dismiss your opinions as quickly as I might other peoples. We all benefit from your experience, so I thank you for sharing.

Posted by: @zacek

@zentai

El progasm tiene la llamada pestaña kundalini...crees que este modelo sea mas propenso para ocasionar el síndrome kundalini?

No creo que la forma del Aneros sea un factor. No siento que la estimulación externa del "punto de acupuntura Kundalini" tenga mucho que ver con el desarrollo de un problema.

@rickr 

Thanks for the kind words! 

I do think I could have made different choices, but the context I was in really pushed me toward this particular ending. In hindsight it was all an extremely valuable experience, but it could have turned out very badly. It did in some ways.

I read a long time ago that a smart person learns from his mistakes, but a wise person learns from other's mistakes. So, I hope people can learn from mine.

Wow.  What an amazing read, start to finish.  That said, @zentai, I am sorry to hear of your troubles and am hoping your activation eventually leads to a positive and healing resolution.

On the evening of October 13, I experienced my own kundalini activation.  It was involuntary.  I awoke from a dream at around 3am and found myself in the full grip of it.  I simply let my body go limp, and allow whatever was happening to play out its course.  It was indeed frightening, and yet wondrous.  Certainly novel!

I've always had an interest in the chakras, but as I told my wife, I always thought it was 20% real, and 80% woo.  I thought there was something there to cause all these books and teachings to spring forth, but was embellished with wild exaggeration to stimulate followers and sales.

After my awakening, simply fumbling around the internet to learn more, I bought "Kundalini Exposed" for my Kindle.  I think it was a good choice because it dispenses with all the schools and dogma, and simplifies the salient knowledge to the basics.  In any case, I inexpertly made some clumsy attempts at the exercises.

That night I awoke prematurely again in the throes of a Super O (w/o aneros).  It was really really hot, and I was enjoying myself immensely (what's not to enjoy).  Remembering what I had read, I tried to move that energy up my body.  I moved the orgasm into my stomach, where it slipped pretty readily into my chest.  This felt glorious.  I felt like I was in love with the Cosmos.  Interestingly, I had no orgasmic sensation or pleasure in my groin area.  It was completely in my heart.  From there, I moved it into my throat.  This was wild.  I mindfully focused on the palpable reality of it.  I could feel my throat chakra as simply as I could feel my own hands.  It was simply there.  The '80% woo' thought was utterly vanquished.  This is real.  I stroked my throat and just reveled in the delicious sensations.

From there I moved the energy into my skull.  It felt like my skull was a bowl made of crystal, and the energy was swimming freely about like little sizzling fish.  I have never felt so amazing, and so at-one with all.  And, despite how wonderful I felt, I uncovered the urge to share this joy with the universe.  I willfully intended to release my joy for all to receive, and it fizzed out of my head into space.  I honestly felt reborn, and in love.

I will go back through this excellent thread and read it more carefully, to see what else I can learn.  Currently, however, my opinion is that for all of us that are trying to cultivate 'aless orgasms', we are indeed provoking Kundalini.  It's not to be taken lightly.  It's not some kind of trick or hack to achieve merely pleasure.  Peace to all.  Life is wonderous.

Wonder why some some ppl have a great time with a kundalini awakening and yet it fucks others up?

Wonder why some some ppl have a great time with a kundalini awakening and yet it fucks others up?

Wonder why some some ppl have a great time with a kundalini awakening and yet it fucks others up?

Posted by: @seekingpelican

On the evening of October 13, I experienced my own kundalini activation.  It was involuntary.  I awoke from a dream at around 3am and found myself in the full grip of it.  I simply let my body go limp, and allow whatever was happening to play out its course.  It was indeed frightening, and yet wondrous.  Certainly novel!

Like, this October, 5 days ago? That's cool, congrats ! 

Needless to say, Kundalini activation or Kundalini awakening, or any "Kundalini event" does not mean there will be issues, a.k.a. Kundalini syndrome.

I can agree it's a truly wonderful thing. In my case this led to a cycle of abuse since I could trigger this over and over, I guess that if I had respected the experience as something special, and not just something to play with, I would have been fine. I mean, for *months* it was fine. But I crossed a line somewhere and then I was not fine anymore. I did not even enjoy the Os at this point. I don't know where the limit was or when I really crossed it. 

Sometimes I feel like I burned through all my allotted Super-Os and I have none left. It's kind of a bummer.  Oh sure, I know more than I ever thought I could learn, and I saw some absolutely crazy and amazing stuff, but it does not feel like such a victory now. 

Posted by: @seekingpelican

The '80% woo' thought was utterly vanquished.  This is real.  I stroked my throat and just reveled in the delicious sensations.

Oh, it's absolutely real. As real as it gets. Maybe exactly not in the way they explain it in books and various doctrines, but it's not something someone just made up. And yes, it's glorious! And you really do describe it in a wonderful way. 

Posted by: @seekingpelican

Currently, however, my opinion is that for all of us that are trying to cultivate 'aless orgasms', we are indeed provoking Kundalini.  It's not to be taken lightly.  It's not some kind of trick or hack to achieve merely pleasure.

That's something I'm still struggling to understand. First, I don't know exactly what I was playing with, as I always tried to apply as much logic and as little woo-woo as I could, so my understanding could be "universal" and easy to share. I had very little background on Kundalini. 

It's very clear to me that my trigger for troubles was THC. I don't know if I would have triggered some bad stuff without it, if it just accelerated something that would have happened later anyway, or what.  

Without going through this experience, I would have sworn Aneros use was completely safe outside of 0.0001% freak accidents or light addiction potential. I had been playing with S-Os for around 20 years without any apparent issue. So while Kundalini is a serious subject, I don't know for sure if we're "tickling the beast" with our Aneros use. This is a huge issue for me as I certainly do not want others to experience the downsides I did, so I'm often asking myself if my advice is safe and sound... It's quite the conundrum. 

@Zentai Yes indeed five days ago!  I am truly taking your experiences to heart, and am promising myself to go slowly.  My own 'Super 0' and 'aless' experiences are all quite recent.  I've been an aneros user for I suppose 12 years, but 10 of those years yielded nothing but frustration and endless dud sessions.  So I really am a newbie when it comes to the orgasmic experience of the aneros.  So, I suppose when I say that going for the aless is provoking Kundalini, I am not speaking from any deep experience.  But the more I research the phenomenon, it sure does seem that there is a ton of overlap between our aless techniques and practices and developing a relationship with Kundalini.

Speaking of THC.  I have been pretty much a daily user.  But, since my 10/13 event, I haven't touched it.  Usually when I take a weed break, it entails alot of willpower.  Lately, I am just not interested.  Conversely, I try to meditate daily, but I really have to push myself to the mat.  Since 10/13, however, I feel the urge to meditate, and it is very strong.

Thank you, as always, for frankly sharing your experiences.  They are truly invaluable.

Posted by: @helghast

Wonder why some some ppl have a great time with a kundalini awakening and yet it fucks others up?

My understanding is that it can happen by itself when you're ready, or when you're not, or when you tried to awaken it, or when you didn't, or if you force it in some way...  Then you will react positively or not depending on circumstance, and that's what you get. I saw some information about Near Death Experiences triggering it in some cases, for example. 

Various books and tradition make it more complicated than that, but I think that when you get right down to it, if it manifests at the right time, it will be great, and if not, well, you'll get to deal with it. Most sources warn against trying to trigger it by yourself without knowing exactly what you are doing, meaning, without the guidance of a professional. They all seem to agree that the solo practitioner is asking for trouble. A particular one pretty much said that mental hospitals need patients, so go ahead if you want to do this...  that's pretty harsh... It's just a very powerful phenomenon and you can't know how you will react once it's triggered.  

Someone who is actually knowledgeable about this could probably offer a much better answer. 

@ggringo hey mate, could you provide insight or techniques in how you managed it, or removed it completely.

welcome to private message me.

any hello greatly appreciated.

@zentai

hey mate, could you provide insight or techniques in how you managed it, or removed it completely.

welcome to private message me.

any hello greatly appreciated.

@user3 

Send me a PM with some details about what you are dealing with, I'll see if I can offer advice. I'm not a "real" guru or kundalini specialist. If you are in a very bad spot psychologically, or if you haven't slept for days etc., it would be better to seek professional help as soon as possible. Otherwise I'll be happy to share what I know, I should be able to help you get through this.     

I remember you talking a bit about this in our DMs, Zentai, and I appreciate hearing more of your experience.  I want you to know I took your warnings seriously and haven't really done anything on the Eastern practice side of things for a while.  Sorry you had to go through all that you did but I'm glad that you're in a better place now.  Be completely healed!  I'd like to research more about the Terror at the Gates phenomenon but with Jack Johnston (sort of unceremoniously and abruptly) closing down his business/website it appears that a lot of good info from the Multiples.com forum is just gone, unless it's all been transferred somewhere else.  Oh well. 

Gentlemen, I'm here to confirm that a full case of Kundalini Syndrome is not only real but it's as terrible as the worst you can imagine.  I've made huge mistakes of underestimating the phenomenon and inviting/pushing it without being fully aware of taking the proper precautions.  I don't know that anyone can.

In the last week of May, I was enjoying a fantastic Aneros session while pulling up energy through my chakras and stimulating my nipples.  I could feel the energy flowing freely and I was thoroughly enjoying the experience.  As I felt a surge of energy in my perineum, I made the mistake of consciously pulling it up very aggressively and that's when I felt the jolt of electricity coming up and consuming my whole body while my nipples absolutely exploded in pain and shock.  I don't know how long I was in this state of shock but it was not pleasurable.  Eventually, I was able to pull out my massager and head up to bed.

I spent that night floating in unpleasurable waves of current and I knew I had crossed the line.  In the next day, my nipples became extremely sensitive to the point where I couldn't stand the touch of my t-shirt or bed covers.  I literally had to tape bottle caps over them to protect them.  In the following days, my skin around my nipples started to feel like it was sunburned.  As time progressed, the sensations continued to spread throughout my body with no relief and this continues to this day!  I've experienced massive electrical jolts during the night and in my numerous daily naps.

In the span of two months, I've experienced tremendous weight loss (almost 20 lbs.), loss of all energy; I never feel rested and I crave sleep all the time.  I guess the only relief I get is when I'm sleeping.  I have dry chalky mouth, I have the shakes of an old man stricken by Parkinson's disease.  I lost my appetite and have to force myself to eat.  Furthermore, in the last few weeks, I can't get full night sleeps as I have to get up 4 to 5 times to pee and this with prostate restriction.  This one is strange as I've had very strong floor muscles since the beginning of my journey.  

There are numerous other effects I've experienced.  My dilemma is that my doctor is totally baffled by this and can only describe it as neurological disorder.   I'm having a prostate exam today in an attempt to reduce the number of bathroom visits during the night.

I'm totally on my own with this one; my wife has no idea about the cause of my condition and does no believe in the voodoo side of life. I thank the stars I'm in retirement; I couldn't work.

I'm slowly learning to live with the constant simile sense of sunburn and I have to drive myself to  reengage my muscles and get active again.   There's not much I can do about my shaking and I'm sure it will be a while before I can brush my teeth without spreading toothpaste from under my nose to below my lips.

They say it could take months to years before things get back to normal so I’m in it for the long haul.  

My advice to you all, do not underestimate the power of the snake residing in your root chakra.

I should've listen to my friend @zentai. 

I haven't logged in in months; typing is not easy so I won't be writing too often.

@ggringo 

Man that's terrible ! There are some steps you can take to help you get back on your feet. Give me a bit of time, I'll send you a PM and we'll try to figure this out, I have today off and the week-end so we can take as much time as necessary. Talk to you soon. 

@zentai Thank you so much my friend; I welcome any bit of help to get myself out of this predicament.

DISCLAIMER

Ok, it might have been a little presumptuous on my part to assume that my case is a direct example of Kundalini Syndrome since I can't prove anything.  My conviction was based (still is) on the fact that I really felt the electrical energy surged from my root chakra up and throughout my body.

Not being a guru in the matter, it's important to note that I may have been wrong in my assessment and the last thing I want to do is scare anyone on the subject.  I'm far from being an expert so please draw your own conclusions.  

Hello @ggringo, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I'm not expert in this topic, but I really want to help you as much as I can. I did experience something similar after getting my first p-wave, but it was more mental for me but I also had electrical feelings but only around prostate. It was enough to scare me and be more careful with my sessions.

When I read about kundalini they usually refer to mental aspect of it and they call it kundalini syndrome. So there are multiple views on this topic, you can use yogi approach or western medicine approach. I think what you experience is some sort of neurological shortcut in your body. So you are able to generate a lot of energy from arousal and it just simply went wrong way to nipple area. But kundalini it usually goes along the spine and somehow the energy converts at the crown of the head. In your case it might not go any further because you channeled it to a wrong way and it stuck overloading your nervous system. I might be 100% wrong on this, so feel free do disregard, science I have no experience in it.

Using Yogi approach:

• have you tried to find a teacher who can help with the awakening and moving energies? I know it can be hard but there is community on reddit
• have you tried to channel energy back down from your nipple area and allow it to go back along the spine like in a regular rising? It might be stuck there without going anywhere.
• have you tried some sort of meditations they recommend? There is this trick that somebody used and it helped

Using Western approach:

• I think you need to talk to neurologist so they can rule out some neurological conditions, it might be a coincidence or the last straw your nervous system handled. And it can be nothing to do with kundalini. They might prescribe you some tests to check for common neurological conditions.
• Maybe some medications like injection of b12 to support nerves health, do basic blood work to see if you have any anomalies
• Might be that you accidentally pinched your nerve in prostate that can explain problem with urination since  there is a lot of inflammation and your muscles are contracted and prostate doesn't want to relax
• Try keto diet it reported to help with neurological conditions and seizures and supports nerve health. I'm talking about very deep ketosis with tons of mct oil. Do this with doctor so they can monitor your blood sugar and ketones levels.

Do you experience any psychological symptoms?

@ggringo 

Posted by: @ggringo

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Not being a guru in the matter, it's important to note that I may have been wrong in my assessment and the last thing I want to do is scare anyone on the subject.  I'm far from being an expert so please draw your own conclusions.  

Of course it's pretty hard to know exactly what you are dealing with, but since even Western medicine recognizes "Qi Gong psychotic reaction" as a real thing, there's no reason we cannot see it as a possibility. I'm no expert myself, my "credentials" are that I went through something that I believe was Kundalini syndrome, and I worked with a handful of people who asked me for help. Some of them I was able to help, others improved mainly by themselves. Some guys stopped giving updates after a while so I don't know how long it took for them to be entirely "cured". 

One thing that remains super important is to carry on with doctor visits and tests (I know we talked about this a bit, this is more general advice for anyone interested). You don't want to look for an exotic source if this is a more mundane issue, even if you think things are pretty cut and dry. Hang in there ! 

Hi @astronaut and thank you so much for your offer to help; I really appreciate it!

I will try to address as many points as I can but typing is extremely difficult with my uncontrollable shaking.

What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me. To clarify, the huge upsurge burst of energy completely engulfed my body and head amplified by my nipple stimulation of the moment.  Is it Kundalini; perhaps yes, perhaps no; At this point, what I classify it is no longer important for me.

The Yogi approach:

• I'm reading more and more opinions on reddit.com
• Yes, I've been trying to channel the energy back down to my root chakra,
• No, I've not tried meditating; I need to start doing it now; thanks for the suggestion.

Using Western approach:

• I've started the process of going through my GP to get the basic diagnosis process started; blood tests, urine analysis etc. I'll be pushing for a referral to a neurologist.
• I'm already on a B12 supplement and have been for well over 2 years.
• I'm having a pelvic ultrasound scheduled for tomorrow.  I'm hoping it will provide a clue,
• I'm not familiar with ket diet so I need to educate myself.

No, I have no psychological symptoms.  Of course, this whole experience does create some anxiety but I'm keeping myself in control of my emotions. 

Again,  thank you for your interest and help!

Posted by: @zentai

↑

One thing that remains super important is to carry on with doctor visits and tests (I know we talked about this a bit, this is more general advice for anyone interested).

Yes, it's important for me to go through the process.  I  do realize I'm in this predicament for the long haul but I'm slowly learning to live with some of the symptoms.

Thanks for your help on and off the ice!