Automatic tantra?

(this post was edited 2005-06-12 01:43:10)

(this post was edited 2005-06-12 01:41:07)

Interesting question. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's an easy answer. I've spent a fair amount of time looking into Tantra over the years, and my conclusion has always been that (the way it's taught in the States anyway) it's far more effective for women than it is for men.

To date, I only know one man personally who has truly learned to have multiple orgasms through Tantra practice, and he had a great deal of personal instruction from a famous Tantric author and instructor.

Most men I know who have bought books, videos, and attended classes in either Tantra or Taoist methods always say they can't even make the infamous PC exercises work for them to achieve multiples, much less begin to access the kundalini energy.

Personally, I gave up on the PC methods after years of sincere effort. What finally worked for me was a technique called KSMO or Key Sound Multiple Orgasm (www.multiples.com). It's totally unique in that it works through heightened arousal and relaxation rather than PC control.

I had my first multi-orgasmic experience within 3 weeks of practice (7 orgasms in a row and no ejaculation). And after 5 years of practice, I can say in all honesty I regularly enjoy everything you just described (plus a few things you didn't mention).

I've been a volunteer coach at the KSMO website for a few years now, and I've watched quite a few men go from average lovers to multi-orgasmic superstuds in just a few weeks. So I know they're out there. I talk to them on a regular basis. But unfortunately, KSMO is currently only taught online. There aren't any KSMO weekend retreats in Maui...yet. So, I'm not sure how you could go about meeting a practitioner face to face.

My best advice would be this:

Check out the website, and consider trying KSMO for yourself (yep, the same technique works for women too!). The audio seminar only costs $30 and comes with free, unlimited access to the KSMO Forum, and Coaching Chats, as well as advice from volunteer coaches like myself. That way, you can get to know the process men go through in learning to become multi-orgasmic by reading their experiences and asking them questions.

[Actually, you can still read the posts and chats for free anyway, but to learn the technique and post questions or attend live coaching chats, you need to purchase the seminar.]

I know, you obviously don't need any help in the pleasure department! But, keeping in mind how rarely Tantra works for men, wouldn't it be great if you knew an alternative technique that actually DOES help men enjoy multiple orgasms and could share that with your next lover?

All in all, I'd say your chances of finding a man already capable of Beyond Tantric Orgasms is pretty small. Sadly, it's not a mainstream ability...yet. You can always cruise those Tantra retreats, and you might get lucky. But I think your best chance of finding a compatible partner is to first set your sights on finding a man who's emotionally healthy, easy going, and mentally open to trying new things and of course wants to be multi-orgasmic, then offer to show him what you've learned.

When I started out trying to become multi-orgasmic, my wife had no interest in learning new sexual techniques. So I taught myself KSMO through solo practice. Once I was multi-orgasmic, I didn't tell her to change what she was doing in bed to match my new skills, I simply shared the new feelings I had discovered and she naturally responded to them. Within a few weeks, she was enjoying new kinds of orgasmic pleasure as well, just by being receptive to the new pleasures I was feeling. Our lovemaking was totally transformed into something beautiful and magical, without ever having to make a conscious effort.

I think if you find the right guy, even if he's not a super stud when you meet him, he may just become one simply by being open to new experiences, and following your lead. In the meantime, learning more about the journey men go through in becoming multi-orgasmic can help you become aware of how best to assist him along the way.

🙂

Thank you. I don't need to learn key sound myself--God, as it is I'm trying to blow through my chi by having multiple ejaculation orgasms every day to knock it down.

I don't think American tantric practice works all that well for women either. My diet works a lot better, a lot, and a lot faster too. I've had women become spontaneously vaginally orgasmic who weren't even able to have a regular vaginal orgasm during sex within a matter of months. And I'm like a superfreak.

I guess what I really want to know if there are men out there who can feel the transfer of chi energy from a woman's to a man's heart chakra, just like I can now feel the chi energy transfer from a man's ejaculation. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

I strongly suspect the Aneros will help this along, just like the PC muscle exercise on my diet using the Gyneflex is a key part of triggering kundalini awakening. Thank you for confirming that I shouldn't waste my time looking in "tantric" places.

(this post was edited 2005-06-13 13:08:45)

Well, I can certainly confirm that men are fully capable of enjoying Heart Chakra orgasms, full body orgasms, and all kinds of other "Kundalini" stuff as well! In fact, when it comes to sexual energy and all the ways it can be expressed, I'd say that men and women are virtually identical. It's just that, for obvious reasons, men often have more difficulty becoming multi-orgasmic to begin with. I think of it as learning to achieve flight. Once in the air, both men and women have the same degree of freedom and expression, but most men simply never get off the ground.

The traditional methods all seem convinced that PC control is the best (and many say only) way to seperate orgasm from ejaculation. I think that's the main obstacle for men these days. It's almost like a massive campaign of misinformation that's lasted for centuries. Supposedly, any guy should become a multi-orgasmic superstud after enough PC flexes. With common access to the Internet and endless books on the subject, it seems every guy has heard this, and yet no one seems able to demonstrate it.

My experience with KSMO has convinced me that the true key to becoming multi-orgasmic for either gender is relaxation and heightened arousal, not muscle control. Ask any guy who's taken the drug Ecstasy, with enough endorphins in the brain, anything and everything feels orgasmic - without ejaculation and without super-strong PC muscles. That's why some folks call it "Tantra in a pill."

Ecstasy clearly demonstrates that orgasm occurs in the brain, and not the genitals. So the root of orgasmic sensation is clearly arousal and not physical stimulation. Why then, do all the traditional methods like Tantra tell men the road to MMO's begins with their genitals?

With sufficent arousal, you can naturally create an effect identical to the drug Ecstasy, including full body, multiple orgasms even without erection or direct physical stimulation. The trick with men is learning to remain completely relaxed while arousal continues to increase. By doing so, the body never prepares for ejaculation, thus there's no feeling of holding back. The result is an ability to enjoy all the pleasure and orgasms you want, without having to maintain constant control of your body.

Ironically, it's the fact that so many men are busy trying to control their PC muscles, and hold back their ejaculation, that they rarely experience deeper levels of orgasm or are able to share that Kundalini energy with a partner. It's like trying to juggle with one hand and give a sensual massage with the other! It simply doesn't work.

The only way it works for most men is by learning how to let go. The paradox of seperating orgasm from ejaculation is that you gain control by giving up control. Learning to relax through intense pleasure is a far more effective way of bypassing the ejaculation reflex than muscle control. One is like surfing, the other is like trying to hold back a dam that's about to burst. Which sounds easier and more enjoyable?

As for whether the Aneros can help men to awaken the Kundalini, I really don't know. I was already multi-orgasmic when I began using my Aneros, so I'm not qualified to say what the Aneros alone can do for expanding one's experience of energetic orgasm. I hope someone else might want to step in here and comment on that...

🙂

Hi Pan,

That was good. Thanks for sharing it with us. It certainly made me think about what I am doing. Maybe it will help some of the new guys as well. I sure hope I can get to your level.

To The Journey!

Buster

Hey Buster,

You're very welcome of course! I spend a fair amount of my free time talking about this stuff because I want guys (and their partners) to know they have alternatives if they can't make the PC methods work for them.

I spent years feeling depressed, frustrated, and jealous simply because I wasn't happy with the one-shot ejaculatory orgasm. And sadly, many of my relationships suffered because I hadn't learned how to deal with those feelings in a constructive manner. Worst of all, I thought tons of guys out there were enjoying multiples with the PC methods and I just wasn't getting it.

Any time I can help someone avoid what I put myself through in those first few years, it makes me feel better about how I started my own journey to MMO.

And as for reaching my level, I'm certain you (and just about anyone else) can. I'm really nothing special. In fact, when I first started learning KSMO, I was an out of shape, pack-a-day smoker, and still recovering from an old spine injury while on tons of medications.

So I can say from experience, you don't have to be super healthy or especially skilled in order to become multi-orgasmic. It just takes a positive attitude, an open heart and mind, and the right technique (or partner) to guide you there. After that, it's a totally natural expression of what's already inside you.

All these techniques people sell as books, videos, and classes, are really just training wheels for something we're all born able to do. Techniques are just reminders for how to do it naturally!

Pan,

As always your comments are insightful and thought provoking. I thought I'd chime in here as well. I've previously commented on my own experiences with Jack Johnson's Key Sound method, and I wanted to recap.

Although I never experienced the type of success with it that you have, it was indeed a terrific resource for me in gaining a deeper understanding of my own body and mind. In particular, his use of breathing and mental focus were very illuminating. Jack is a great educator who is dedicated to expanding people's awareness of themselves. He's also a nice guy!

I think at one time I termed his Key Sound technique as a breadth requirement or was it a ..breath requirement in one's education and pursuit of the Super O. Whatever the case, I strongly recommend it to everyone!

In the end the method that proved successful for me however, was a synthesis of several techniques that I happened upon while engaged in this sensual journey of mine. For me it's about mental focus, breath control, subtle PC contractions and yes, AROUSAL. You have this one absolutely right....AROUSAL TRUMPS ALL! Generating it, magnifying it, sustaining it....that's the trick. I encourage everyone in this forum to explore, experiment (excluding any artificial means) and be open to change.

BF Mayfield

Arrrgggghhhh! Then it is the same for men and women.

Okay, please listen. I KNOW this stuff. In women, the ability for spontaneous vaginal orgasms--the equivalent of Super-O's is dependent on three things: dopamine vs. serotonin in the brain, free testosterone and PC muscle strength. You don't need superhuman PC muscles to get the ability, but a baseline is nice.

Now it used to be that men especially didn't have to worry about dopamine (and they still don't have to worry much about free testosterone, at least not as much as women). Dopamine is enhanced by omega-3 fatty acids, and it used to be that omega-3 fatty acids were common in most protein sources--wild game, seafood, etc. Even free-range cows and chickens are high in omega-3 fatty acids. However, grain-fed beef and chicken have no omega-3 fatty acids. So people eating a typical American or Canadian diet have very low omega-3 fatty acid levels (which explains the explosion in use of antidepressants). I have Medline references galore showing the effect of fish oil on dopamine levels.

Yes, meditation and deep breathing can raise dopamine levels too, but it's a lot harder to do it this way. Taking mega-doses of fish oil, which simply restores the natural healthy omega-3 fatty acid balance in the body that we evolved to have--that's the easy way.

So see that's why there used to be such a stress on PC muscles, because five hundred years ago the other stuff would have been in the right balance. But if your dopamine is low, you can have strong PC muscles and stop ejaculating and it still won't bring on a Super-O, just like women can exercise their PC muscles all they like and they will never have a vaginal orgasm until their brain chemistry is in balance.

I'm laughing at myself--criteria for new boyfriend: must be willing to go on high-dose fish oil diet, must be willing to get odd-looking sex toy and put it up his ass, must be willing to meditate making funny noises, must have high libido to keep up. Hmmmm...not the sort of thing one can put in a personals ad. LOL

Wait, you developed the ability to have heart chakra orgasms while you smoking a pack a day! Hm. Do you mind if I ask what other medications you were on at the time? Pain relievers maybe, something that raised dopamine levels?

The reason is I get some women on my diet who are smokers, and it's lots harder to be vaginally orgasmic when you smoke and/or drink lots of caffeine. Anything that raises serotonin levels more than dopamine levels generally kills the ability (just like most antidepressants, except for Wellbutrin that raises both).

I'm laughing at myself--criteria for new boyfriend: must be willing to go on high-dose fish oil diet, must be willing to get odd-looking sex toy and put it up his ass, must be willing to meditate making funny noises, must have high libido to keep up. Hmmmm...not the sort of thing one can put in a personals ad. LOL

LOL! Wow, when you put it THAT way it does sound complicated...

Anyway...

Those were some great comments guys! Zane, I think you've finally answered a question that has plagued me for years! Why don't PC squeezes produce orgasms in men like they're supposed to?

Low Dopamine levels! Yes! That makes perfect sense to me! Gawd, that explains so much...

Also, I thought I once heard somewhere that being significantly overweight reduces free testosterone in men? Does that sound accurate?

Of course, I still think the entire concept of using PC muscles for ejaculation control is basically flawed, but that's just my opinion.

Regarding my situtation when I began learning KSMO, I had been suffering from fairly intense chronic nerve pain for about 7 years and was prescribed: Buprinorphine (powerful opiate painkiller), Neurontin (a nervine), Zanaflex (muscle relaxer), Baclofen (spinal muscle relaxer), and Zofran (anti-naseau). There were others as well, but those were my primary daily meds. As far as I know, none of them significantly affect serotonin or dopamine levels. But I expect you'll be able to answer that better than I can!

However, and this is the really interesting part, within 3 months of becoming multi-orgasmic, I was no longer taking the Burpinorphine and had cut my dosage of the other medications down to half or less. Within 8 months, I was no longer using any medications and overall my pain was down to about 30% of what it had been consistantly for the past 7 years.

I always remember the day I told my neurologist I was going off the pills for good. She told me that with my condition, I would probably always need some medications in order to function properly. That was 5 years ago. I haven't taken a drug since that day, I stopped smoking, I'm in decent shape again, and I generally have very little pain. I can honestly say, I don't think I would have recovered nearly as quickly or completely without my KSMO practice.

I must say though, I did continue to be a pack-a-day smoker for another 4 years after I stopped taking any medications. And yet, in that time my practice seemed to develop by leaps and bounds. I had my first Heartgasm (as we call them in KSMO) about 6 months after I started practicing. This is why I'm inclined to believe that a healthy emotional state and a positive attitutde towards life are far more important than age or physical condition. Not that good health isn't also important. I just think that mind over matter applies to orgasms as much as anything!

Mayfield,

I'm so glad you decided to jump in here! I've always wanted to ask you, was there a particular aspect of KSMO that you found either difficult or ineffective for you? And would you please tell us more about the synthesis of techniques you found to be beneficial?

(this post was edited 2005-06-14 17:23:14)

Fascinating. Buprenorphine absolutely cranks up dopamine--it's an opiate. That's what opiates do. Neurotin and Zanaflex are dopamine-neutral. Baclofen actually decreases dopamine, I'm assuming not enough to kill the opiate effect of the buprenorphine. Dopamine is a painkiller. Interestingly, Zofran decreases serotonin. It is my firm belief that high dopamine relative to moderate serotonin levels is really the key. The Zofran might have had enough punch to keep the serotonin from smoking low too (smoking also raises dopamine).

That's why I believe from reading these posts that for example the guy on poppers had Super-O's on first use of the Aneros. Not that I'm recommending poppers. If my theory holds true, non-Americans and non-Canadians would have better luck reaching Super-O's because North American beef and poultry are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids because we feed our livestock grain instead of their regular range diet.

Overweight does cause low free testosterone in men. So does a low-fat vegetarian diet. Don't get me started on hormone talk, I'll go all night, lol.

Orgasms also boost dopamine levels. Giving yourself frequent orgasms is causing your body's natural dopamine to rise, acting as a painkiller. I can't tell you how fascinating the cigarette thing is to me. I suppose it's because men have naturally higher levels of dopamine than women--they don't have as far to go.

I think once you know the way to a Super-O, it's easier to get there, even if the brain chemistry isn't perfect. I know it's that way with spontaneous vaginal orgasms. My first one took about an hour of intense fantasy, with the extra stimulation of the vibrations from driving a car. Now I can have a spontaneous vaginal orgasms from a few seconds of flexing.

I've had a couple men handy with the Aneros take high-dose fish oil with wild results, that's why I've been posting here. So far here no one has reported back, at least I don't think. I am very curious.

I agree with you about the ejaculation denial thing. Within reason, of course. I think if a guy is ejaculating three times a day he's going to find it hard to get aroused enough to benefit from the Aneros or from KSMO Super-O practice. But I personally don't think the PC muscles need to be used to stop ejaculation. I do believe strong PC muscles are necessary for a man to have the Super-O ability, and I believe that's the reason it takes some men several months using the Aneros--they are simply building up muscle tone down there by flexing.

Also, yes mind over matter does work within limits. For example, a person can slow down their heartrate by meditation and breathing techniques. On the other hand a person can also slow down their heartrate by becoming aerobically fit. Combine the two and you have the optimal effect. That's why I think taking high-dose fish oil used in tandem with the KSMO and/or relaxation techniques used with the Aneros would have very effective and fast results.

One other thing--in traditional tantric practice men are encouraged to do male Kegels. I work with women on developing PC muscle tone, and Kegels are about as effective in building muscle as flexing your arm is effective in building bicep muscles. To put on bicep muscle efficiently you need resistance--same thing with PC muscles. The Gyneflex is a great PC muscle resistance device for women. It looks like the Aneros also offers some resistance--it uses positive biofeedback to encourage flexing the thing against the prostate--I'm assuming the prostate offers resistance. Is there also any flexing of the Aneros itself, or does the device remain rigid?

Ok, I'm feeling a silly here for having not already known that opiates ramp up dopamine levels. But it all makes a lot more sense to me now, how KSMO practice allowed me to drop the meds so easily and reduce my pain at the same time. I'm certainly learning a lot in this exchange! Thanks Zane!

As for the smoking issues, looking back, the only significant difference I've noticed in my practice from when I was a smoker to now is the increased lung capacity. Of course, that by itself offers a pretty nice boost in pleasure during a session!

I definitely agree that once you begin having Super-O's or MMO's or similiar orgasmic experiences, they become easier to access afterwards. I really like B Mayfield's description of "re-wiring." It's like once you have it, it's always with you.

About the PC flexing involved with the Aneros, whether the prostate provides resistance to the Aneros? I'm just not sure. I've never actually felt my prostate with my fingers, so I don't really know how much "give" it has against applied pressure. It always seems as if the slightest movement from the Aneros is sufficient to produce major responses. I'm guessing that means very little pressure is actually applied, so not much resistance is involved? I can say that the Aneros itself is almost totally inflexible. It's made from very hard plastic.

On a side note, by any chance are you familiar with brainwave entrainment products and how they affect serotonin and dopamine levels? I've been using an audio CD called Ecstasy from www.brainsync.com for years now. It's actually designed to increase endorphin levels over time with regular use. It's really an amazing product. I just listen to it for a few days in a row, and I find my libido and all my erotic activities are enhanced.

I've been so fascinated by this program, I'm currently experimenting with software and attempting to make my own versions of the Ecstasy Cd. So far, it's not quite the same, but I'm getting closer...

I checked out the site. The concept sounds great, but I really get irritated listening to relaxation tapes with someone bossing me around. LOL I listened to the demo. I'm quite competent at hypnotizing myself, thank you very much. Is it possible to get the music without the voiceover? I think the concept of entering a theta state that way is a nifty one.

Zane, Pan & Mr. Mayfield,

I have been fascinated in what you have been saying, but I have a question. Can someone get themselves into this altered state simply by applying basic meditation techniques? I have never worked on that, but I keep thinking about it while I am reading your posts. I have a book on meditation that I can become more familiar with.

Thanks all,

Buster

Yes and no. There's a mind/body interaction. Yes, simple meditation and relaxation can raise dopamine levels but it's helpful to have good body chemistry too. For example, if you drank a big pot of strong coffee right before you tried to meditate, it probably wouldn't work very well.

Zane,

Yeah I hear ya. When it comes to hypnosis audios and guided meditations, I'm extremely picky about voices. That's why I prefer self-hypnosis as well.

The cool thing about the Ecstasy Cd is it's just music with a technology called Binaural Beats implanted into the background. Binaural Beats help create a pattern that your brainwaves will attune to over a period of a few minutes. They just sound like a faint humming noise in the background.

There's no voices at all in the program. And actually, I've always thought the music was quite beautiful. After 6 years, I still enjoy listening to it. It's supposedly based on Traditional Tantric rhythms or something. It's just a lovely new age piece. So far, every friend I know who's listened to it agreed that it's very easy on the ears.

Buster, you might really like this part - the program doesn't require any focus or concentration to work. Simply lie down, close your eyes, maybe allow your imagination to drift towards something arousing, and the Cd does the rest for you! It's a great way to enjoy an altered state without any effort.

Another excellent way to use this Cd is as a form of self-hypnosis using visualization. It creates an Alpha-Theta state, which is ideal for entering a highly suggestible frame of mind. Let's say you're a guy who had one Super-O about 3 months ago and haven't been able to re-create the experience since. You can use this Cd to re-create the Super-O experience in your mind in vivid detail, as if it's happening to you once again. By continuing to do this every day for a few weeks, you're sending a powerful hypnotic message to your subsconscious. By convincing yourself that you are fully capable of having Super-O's, your subconscious will actually produce those results.

Another really fun use for this Cd is as a kind of erotic vacation program. Because an Alpha-Theta state increases endorphin levels and at the same, enhances our ability to imagine things in vivid detail, it's a great way to supercharge your fantasy life.

I guess I might as well also mention another use I have for this Cd, which is to help me do something called Amygdala Clicking. Amygdala Clicking or Clicking Forward as it's also called, is one of the most amazing practices I've ever come across. I've only been doing it for a little over a year and it's already become a truly life-changing experience. At the same, it's incredibly easy to learn and do.

You can learn it for free at this website: www.neilslade.com

Although I highly recommend buying the book "Frontal Lobes Supercharge" for a clearer understanding of how to do it and why you would want to.

But I think everyone will find the following link especially interesting: http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/sex.html

I can personally attest that what he's saying is true. Clicking Forward can produce MMO's, even if you're just sitting around watching TV, with your clothes on!

Amygdala Clicking is such a huge topic, that it really deserves a thread of its own. So I'll stop here and allow for comments if anyone has them. But I thought I should mention that I've found each of these things:

The Aneros, KSMO, Amygdala Clicking, and Brainwave Entrainment to compliment and greatly enhance the others in pursuit of MMO's.

The Aneros often makes my KSMO sessions more powerful and pleasurable the next day. The Key Sound greatly enhances my ability to experience and enjoy the Super-O during my Aneros sessions. Listening to the Ecstasy Cd regularly, enhances them both. And I use Amygdala Clicking to greatly enhance the other three!

My experience has taught me that each of these things seperately is a wonderful way of enjoying great pleasures. But learning to combine them (which is surprisingly easy to do) not only enhances the total experience, but it also helps improve my chances of achieving bliss each time I'm seeking it.

If one way isn't quite working for whatever reason, I can use another to help boost the experience and achieve the results I'm looking for. To me, finding new ways of enjoying pleasure that compliment each other without conflicting has been incredibly effective (and fun!).

And on that note, I'm looking forward to trying Zane's diet soon. Because I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up becoming the latest addition to my ever-growing list of ways to enjoy MMO!

I'm reading a book called The Tipping Point--it's been very interesting--talks about how ideas are spread. From what I've read, I classify as a "Maven" and it seems like you do too. We both love to acquire and share information. The Ecstasy CD sounds like just the thing I'd enjoy tremendously, thank you. Will check out the clicking website too.

And if anyone wants to know about hormone replacement therapy in the treatment of female sexual dysfunction, or good herbals to try, or the best sex toys or whatnot, I'm very good at thread drift--LOL

Wow,

So much info. passed over the last several days, just got an opportunity to chime in so here it is. Pan, I assume the Ecstasy CD you're referring to is the one by Kelly Howell? If so, I've used it myself and found it a wonderful source of aural arousal . If one is opposed to viewing erotica (too prurient for ya) this can be a great substitute. I've also used both of them simultaneously and found that it really got things moving...energetically speaking.

In terms of Zane Blue's much heralded fish oil diet, although my results seemed promising at first (placebo effect), I would have state that thus far they've been fairly inconclusive. That having been said, I am aware that all of this may be affected by the type of fish oil that one consumes. That's right, (as Zane will surely tell you) they're not all the same. Quality varies, as does the all-important EPA to DHA ratio. For purposes, of supplementation such as is being discussed here, pharmaceutical grade oil is the only thing that should be considered. Of course pharmaceutical grade has become a relative term too, as it seems that everybody's using it to sell product these days. (The term was originally intended to indicate quality and purity (the product would contain a precise amounts ingredients with no (or almost infinitesimal quantities) of contaminants (heavy metals, PCB, Dioxin etc... the usual bad guys).

Although I'm fairly confident of it's purity (IFOS stats) the product that I've been using since last September only has a 1.6 : 1 EPA/DHA ratio. The ZONE product (SEARS) that Zane had linked on her site, has a 2: 1 ratio, which may be a factor in this working. But this brings up another issue, which has raged, about naturally occurring vs. engineered. That is, to achieve this ratio of higher EPA to DHA , the manufacturer will process the oil, creating an ethyl ester, which some have suggested is not the most bio-available form......and so it goes. Lots of stuff to digest lol.

In any event, the manufacturers of the oil that I've been using have just started producing a product with a 3:1 ratio. Yes it has been esterified, but once they achieve the more concentrated mixture, they process it once more, back to the bio-available form. We'll see. I should mention that I've noticed numerous other health benefits from the use of this oil (for myself and my family) that have nothing to do with elevating the sexual response. I would strongly recommend the consumption of fish oil for these reasons alone. Again, as far as this sexual component goes.... let’s put it this way,...it definitely makes sense on paper...but it hasn't happened for me yet. I'm still checking this one out. I’ll keep you posted.

In general terms, I see supplementation within the context of optimizing sexual response as opposed to actually creating it. So, facilitating or enhancing… I’m all for. However, I must admit that I’m a bit uncomfortable with the notion of reducing ALL of this down to the level of manipulating my chemistry. For me, that diminishes the experience in some ways. It’s just not the ZEN thing to do…ya know? I guess I enjoy the mystery of it all too.

Pan, you had asked about my experience with KSMO. First, I would have to say in practical terms that I sometimes found it difficult to find a venue for practicing this technique. That is, there really isn't any way to do this quietly 🙂 But seriously. The Key sound technique, offered me some amazing glimpses of what I had to look forward to. I was dedicated to it for about 3 months during which time I never had the cross-over experience........yes, with all that I've said in this forum about being patient....well I wasn't there yet....so at that point I moved on to the Aneros. As luck would have it...I crossed-over the very first time I used it (then lost the ability thereafter for several months...this where I learned about patience...:(

As I've said in the past I believe that there are many different paths to the Super O. I’ve encouraged everybody to be open to this. In many ways it’s like one of those maze puzzles that lead you on a circuitous path. I’m doubtful that there is any straight line there that will work for everybody. However, with help of people like you and Zane and some of the other advanced users in the forum out there, perhaps we can streamline it a bit.

Great thread you two!

BF Mayfield

(this post was edited 2005-06-16 12:45:11)

No, actually higher DHA helps the libido thing--as long as you were getting 800 mg or more of DHA per day and also EPA, that should have done it. Fascinating that it didn't work for you. I loosely define "pharmaceutical-grade" as having >500 mg of EPA+DHA in one one-gram pill. Women it sometimes takes a month, but men respond faster.

Well when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I wonder why I'm wrong. Now I want to ask you questions about stimulant intake and antidepressant usage, lol. Don't mind me.

Fish oil on its own certainly won't bring on Super-O's. Women on my diet don't develop vaginal orgasmic ability until they start exercising the PC muscles with resistance training--the only thing the fish oil on its own does is increase libido and ease of clitoral orgasms (which is actually nothing to sneeze at). But you are already the expert on using the Aneros so you already had that part in place.

Thank you so much for the feedback, and thank you for trying it.

I will say that I am certain that robust dopamine levels in relation to serotonin levels are a baseline for Super-O achievement, no matter what path or technique is followed. Brain chemistry on its own won't bring the ability--but it certainly helps.

Whoa!!! That brain-clicking thing--it's the sixth chakra! THANK YOU!

Now, if my theory is correct, that "brain-clicking" comes easier to men, just like heart chakra orgasms come easier to women.

Thank you Pan. Gosh I hope the fish oil works for you, want to give something back to you in return. 🙂

Zane,

With respect to the fish oil, I wouldn't say you're wrong at all. It's just as likely that I'm the wrong person to test it. It's possible that my dopamine levels are high as is, so the effect is less noticeable with me. It takes very little to get me going these days...there are some thoughts that can do it!

I forgot to address a point that you made about PC contractions. You had stated that you believed that men must have strong PC muscles to experience the Super O. I maintain that toned PC muscles are what one is looking for to tune in the Super O. There may be a time for stronger contractions (particularly when one is peaking), but by in large the heavy lifting is done in the subtle to moderate range. What were talking about is a PC conditioned for responsiveness. I've had some sessions where I've maintained a powerful contraction throughout, but these are the exception not the rule. Most often generating the Super O is about using contractions in a harmonic way....finding a wave and working in phase with it to achieve greater magnitude and the the cascade beyond.

Forgive me, but I just have to ask it,... do you ever put your PC strength to use during intercourse? If so, to what result..for you and your partners. Do you experience this deeper orgasm while engaged with a partner or is it normally produced flying solo?

BF Mayfield

Yeee Haaaw! Thank you Pan! Just had my first two sixth chakra orgasms. I did the clicking thing, and it was nice and all, but not really what I was looking for. Then I thought--I'm a girl, I bet it's backwards. And it was. Was the strangest feeling, felt like my forebrain was a pussy--my third eye the opening. And I felt it push deep back to my amygdala, stimulating my reptile brain, going backwards the way he says not to do. But I'm female--it totally worked. I came like gangbusters. Twice. Going to do it some more.

Buster, I don't have to clench hard to have a spontaneous vaginal orgasm. Lighter contractions work better. But I have to have the strong muscle tone to be able to clench hard to have the ability to have vaginal orgasms, if that makes any sense. I'm just not using the muscles at their full ability to orgasm.

I can milk a man to orgasm just using my pussy muscles, and keep coming every thirty seconds or so the entire time I'm doing it. It makes sex supercalifragilisticexpialidocious! That said, I know I'm not as tight as a seventeen-year-old virgin--my opening is blown out from two vaginal births and even up further inside it's not as tight as before I had kids. But I am prehensile down there, which is a lot of fun. While I am sure the vaginal orgasms correspond to Super-O's, I think they feel more natural to women and come easier, just like penile orgasms come easy to men. I think that elevates the clitoral orgasm in pleasure. I'd rather have one clitoral orgasm than one vaginal orgasm. The nifty thing about the vaginal orgasms is that they just keep coming, wave after wave. When you have a hundred in a row, then it gets pretty mind-bending.

ZaneBlue,

What state do you live in? I'm amazed with your abilities. Are taking applications for boyfriends?

Rod

(this post was edited 2005-06-17 06:00:49)

I'm nothing special. Plenty of men here doing the equivalent of what I can do, and it's harder for men. The vaginal orgasm thing just takes strong PC muscles and the right biochemistry--any woman can do it. I teach women how all the time.

I guess the heart orgasm thing is more unusual. After posting to that kundalini board link posted on this board, I'm wary. I was told it's something called shaktipat and might cause psychosis if I do it to a guy who isn't kundalini-awakened, which has scared the pants right on me.

That said, I'm in Boston, lol. I should say the dismaying thing about this ability is that although sex is incredible, it is not satisfying unless I have a heart chakra orgasm. In other words, I am insatiable without it. For many men this sounds good on paper but the ones I have had sex with are very put off when they have sex with me, I'm like a sexual Energizer bunny.

Wow,

My computer crashed for one day, and this thread exploded while I was gone! LOL.

Mayfield, thanks for detailing your experiences with KSMO. I was always curious what happened there. I agree that privacy is the single most crucial factor for KSMO practice (unless you're an exhibitionist!) and that's not always easy to find. Although I would say that the Key Sound does work just as well at low volumes as it does when made loudly. The real problem I've found isn't the volume of the Key Sound, it's the urge to make other loud noises after you make after the Key Sound!

I also totally agree that, as the saying goes, there are many paths to the mountain's peak. That's why I've made a hobby of collecting MMO methods which compliment each other. That way I'm always adding to my repetoire, but I never have to sacrifice anything that is already working for me. This is why I'm looking forward to trying Zane's diet. It's yet another, non-intrusive, and non-exclusive option.

Oh, and the part about the Aneros being a harmonic issue rather than a PC issue, once again I completely agree! I rarely even focus on PC control while using the Aneros. It's mostly a reflex action during my sessions. It's funny, but I've actually had some of my best Super-O's when I was just lying there visualizing myself being in the midst of a continuous ejaculatory orgasm. After several minutes of vividly imagining this, a Super-O will often spontaneously occur, without any kind of physical stimulation or voluntary PC contractions. For me, PC contractions are often a side-effect of the Super-O, rather than a cause.

Zane -

You're very welcome for the tip on amygdala Clicking! Isn't it just an incredible little technique?!? and it keeps getting better the more you do it too! I'm constantly amazed by it and how few people know about it. Please feel free to spread the word around. I think everyone should know about it!

A couple interesting facts about the difference between the amygdalae in men and women:

1. Women's Amygdalae are smaller than men's. However, this actually means they are MORE responsive than men's, because in terms of neuro-physiology, a smaller organ means more tightly packed neurons, and therefore a heightened response mechanism. It's just like how the clitoris has more nerve endings than the whole penis.

Some neuroligsts believe this difference in amygdala size explains why women are generally more emotionally receptive and empathic than men. At the same time, it suggests that the reason why men are more capable of "compartmentalizing" traumatic events and experiences, such as experiencing physical abuse or witnessing extreme violence, is because their amygdalae are less responsive in general. This is why men seem more capable of separating their minds from their hearts when necessary. It serves an evolutionary purpose for us to hunt and do battle without being emotionally involved at the time.

Of course, Neil Slade's whole theory is based on the idea that we can change! By consciously influencing our amygdalae, we improve our thinking patterns and alter our behavior for the better. We become more human and less reptillian in our responses and therefore we evolve. And of course, we enhance our ability to feel pleasure along the way!

Regarding the way you Clicked Forward, by going backwards, I think I may know what happened. You see, although the size of men's and women's amygdalae are different, their locations and functions within the brain are effectively identical. A number of studies done with miniature electrodes attached to various parts of the amygdalae have confirmed that, when stimulated, the parts which create positive feelings and the parts which create negative feelings, are the same in both sexes. So, in simple terms, forward is always good and backward is always bad.

However, in the time I've been Clicking Forward, I've varied the types of visualizations I've used to make it happen. And I've found that imagining a feather tickling from the front works just as well as from the side or the back. As long as you imagine the energy itself moving forward. So I think you are still stimulating your anterior (front side) amygdalae, but perhaps you are able to sense them more easily by feeling backwards from your forehead.

It's actually the same way for me. For instance, I often feel out my amygdalae by working backwards from the backs of my eyeballs (the amygdalae are located just behind and below the eyes), and once I can physically sense them, I tickle their front sides with a visualization, projecting the energy forward into my frontal lobes.

But I found it especially fascinating when you described your forebrain as feeling like a pussy! And not just because my ears always perk up whenever heard that word!

The funny thing is, and I've never seen anyone else describe it like this before, but from early into my practice of Clicking Forward, I developed a habit of visualizing my two amygdalae as a pair of penises! It just seemed to fit the sensation I was feeling from Clicking Forward, as if I had two extra penises in my head that were being stimulated. I've often described it as feeling like I'm ejaculating from two places at once within my head, and this creates a third feeling of continuously ejaculating in my genitals (although it's actually more of a prostatic orgasm, like a Super-O). So it often feels like I'm cumming continuously from 3 places simultaneously!

I found that I could greatly enhance the effect of Clicking Forward by imagining my amygdalae are two penises that are being licked and sucked at the tips, which stimulate the front sides. It's essentially the same as the Feather Tickling technique, but for some reason I find it far more effective (and fun, in a kinky sort of way).

At this point, I'd like to formally acknowledge that to anyone who has never Clicked Forward, I probably sound completely crazy! All I can say is, if you felt what it's like for yourself, this would actually start to make sense!

Anyway Zane, I would just suggest thinking of Clicking Forward in terms of reaching back to find your amygdalae with your awareness and then teasing them forward with, ahem...stimulating visualizations.

Oh and about your Energizer Bunny Syndrome, I'm not sure it's the same thing, but it reminds me of how I was when I started KSMO. In the first year or so of my practice, I would often have solo sessions that lasted for 3-4 hours at a time. I felt like I could on forever, and often wanted to! But as time went by, I found my sexual energy spreading more easily throughout my body and my chakras. My orgasms would surface more quickly and more powerfully than before, and I began to reach a point of satisfaction where, although I could easily keep going, it seemed like there was no point in it. Every part of me felt satisfied.

So now I generally go for somewhere between 45-90 minutes in my solo sessions, before I reach that point of total satisfaction. But in terms of orgasms, I go much farther, much faster than I used to. This helped a lot when it came to making love with my wife, since believe it or not, in the beginning she was often wiped out by the time I was getting warmed up! Now we're pretty much in synch every time.

So I don't know, it might be something totally different. But it sounded familiar and I just thought I'd say that, for me I think it was that I felt the need to keep going and going because some part of me (maybe my Heart Chakra) wasn't getting the sexual energy it wanted. And as I learned to let it flow more evenly all over, that part felt satisfied more quickly, and eventually I found more satisfaction with less stimulation.

Well, guess that's my two cents for now. My wife and I are moving to a new apartment tomorrow, so I'll be off-line for a few days. It'll be interesting to see what else pops up in here while I'm gone!

Cheers!

🙂

So, I bought some fish oil. How much should I be taking each day?

hello,

so is smoking really bad? Does it hinder the Super O?

(this post was edited 2005-06-17 20:08:09)

Please don't take high-dose fish oil like this if you are taking blood-thinning medication like Coumadin, are on aspirin therapy, take a lot of over-the-counter pain relievers, are scheduled for surgery or are allergic to seafood. But I recommend enough to get 1600 mg of EPA and 800 mg of DHA per day. I personally take 3400 mg of EPA and 2600 mg of DHA per day, practically growing gills. Pharmaceutical-grade fish oil is easier on the digestive system and less pills to take too. But now I'm not sure since it didn't work for B. Mayfield. I've had a couple guys who used the Aneros write to me from another board completely raving about the fish oil.

I'm not sure about the smoking with men. Men are blessed with higher dopamine levels than women. Theoretically it would probably interfere somewhat.

Pan, I know I sound like a 100% total nutcase talking about the chakra things. I'm so glad I have someone to talk to about this stuff. Honest, I can do the forward movement thing, and I do feel refreshed and creative and benign and all that stuff but it doesn't feel orgasmic. Now I'm curious about his female researchers, if any of them reported orgasmic sensations from forward clicking. When I click backwards, the wrong way, it feels very reptilian. It makes me want to fight, it makes me see red, it feels really dirty. Really, really dirty--much dirtier than anything I've ever done, and I've done some pretty kinky things. It's like it triggers all the porn talk in my mind and violent sex. It also triggers a strong orgasm. It makes me feel totally grounded. It just feels right. And it really does feel like a pussy, like the third eye is my pussy muscles flexing around an imaginary penis, and the cockhead is hitting right at the amygdala, just like it would hit my cul de sac up behind my cervix, triggering orgasm. I have been wanting a sixth chakra orgasm for so long. I've known I was close--I would get a throbbing feeling at my third eye but nothing came of it. Now I know I've got it.

As for sex, I can be totally satisfied with sex after ten minutes or two hours or whatever by simply having a heart chakra orgasm. Totally satisfies. And that's my problem.

Man, you guys are awesome. The amount of information in this thread is incredible. Unfortunately for me, it's like information overload... too much for me to take in at once. If you guys could condense and consolidate all of this information into one web page (or pages), I think it would be most helpful to a lot of people. I'd even get a domain and host it for you.

I've looked at the KSMO thing and it sounds great (although the web site is hard to navigate). And the amygdala clicking (with an even worse web site) just seems "right" to me. I feel that it's a key to unlocking a person's untapped potential.

Something else that was kind of glossed over here was the use of meditative/brainwave audio. I've long been interested in this and I've even played with some software that generates various frequencies, binaural beats, etc. (This goes back to the days when I was studying out-of-body experiences... Robert Monroe... hemi-sync.) Can any of you give any tips on what types of waves are best (alpha, theta, etc)? How about some suggested CDs that may be available? And can you explain how this could be incorporated into getting the most of the Aneros?

Thanks for the very intelligent dialog going on here!!!