Reply to Celestial (the locked male liberation thread)

Of course it's conditioning. And if your views in the male liberation movement were to gain enough backing and become a part of some people's life since birth, that too would be conditioning. Everything can be labeled. I like your out of the box thinking, it's a good quality of an open mind willing to look into new nontraditional ideas - probably part of the reason you made it here. The world needs people like you, people who make us question ourselves and our motives. I did an emotional inventory just now, I do feel a pulling toward women. Hah, I gotta be honest, it weighs heavily on my mind. I feel this deep longing inside for the right woman to take this journey with me. It's that same kinda force that drove me everywhere in life. The pull of the moment, the pull of life. The willingness to not limit myself to any one philosophy, to not be defined.

If liberation by your definition means having women outside of my life, then I will accept not being liberated. I don't agree with the label of sex slave, because if you are not enjoying yourself with women, I would put forward that you may not understand the concept of love, of being equal, of giving, of receiving, of accepting fault and willing to be imperfect with another. I'll accept the title of village idiot when I find my soul mate, and at the same time award myself with the title of the happiest man alive.

Of course it's conditioning. And if your views in the male liberation movement were to gain enough backing and become a part of some people's life since birth, that too would be conditioning

Male liberation is about choise, selfempowerment, I don't see this as conditioning.
What constitutes conditioning IMO is like advertising,making people believe they need something outside of themselves to be happy, fulffilled, etc creating dependencies.
I don't understand why it would be conditioning if men reaching puberty were informed about their female side and prostatemassage, just like I don't see it as conditioning that women reaching puberty are informed about anti-conception.
Furthermore, there is a shadowside to the conditioning I'm talking about, the creating of myths like 'great art is inspired by a women('s love), or that men who get lots of p. are superior and men that don't are inferior, I can go on, but I think every man knows what I'm talking about.
So if men were properly informed and free of this negative conditioning and still choose a woman, that would be great!

As I was explaining how religion had created the artificial harmony protecting the male and feminism has liberated females from this bondage helped by anti-conception, now it's time for males to be liberated. If feminists and liberated males could despite this find common ground I couldn't be happier, let's say I'm unhappy with the status quo. Perhaps in the US where religion is still a strong, dominant force, it's not so much of an issue (yet). But still sexslaves abound and the US is world's most materialistic society, a country that uses up a far out of proportion level of the earth's resources(don't your women just love to shop?)

Again, it's about choise, after all I might be wrong in my assessment that women and men are outside of the sex&sexrelated issues incompatible.
But how are we going to know if people are left in the dark? We're basically like the the Hitler Jugend that needed years of 'reprogramming' to undo the conditioning. Just like some Aneros users need years of practice to even become prostate aware and some not even that and have to resort to cannabis to properly re-wire. Imagine if you had been made aware that you were both male as female, you never would have needed any re-wiring, you'd probably even prefer the female orgasm to the male one. Now that's a change I can believe in!

Women want to have their cake and eat it, calling for equality when all they really want is diminishment of male's traditional power but at the same time flooding the male's vision with sexual content. So why is this, what feminists call women's exploitation, retaining or probably more appropriately expanding female power?

To illustrate, of all animals the bonobo is closest to the human, they are however much more sexual than humans. And as I stated before, females have sexual power(that's why religion introduced things like chastity and burkas). Now guess what? Female bonobos are in charge!!!
This is nothing but logical to me coz male(the better sex) get p-fied by females as i've already exhaustively explained in the male lib. thread.
It's not as women degradingly claim because men only think about one thing, but men are programmed on a baser level to react to the sexual, as females are well aware of.
Thus the question you should be asking yourself is:"are you a human or are you a sexslave like a male-bonobo?"
I believe providence has given human beings the mental capacity to overcome their natural limits and have an inherent drive to perfect themselves. Hence,like I don't believe as religions claim, that God allready created humans perfect(biologically that is) I believe in taking charge of our limitations to perhaps one day approximate the divine. So yes, I believe in cloning and genetic manipulation and also that products like birthcontrol and the prostatemassage are instrumental in helping us evolve.
Thus, eventhough I don't believe C., that without women men wouldn't be inspired to create, I do believe that without women men wouldn't develop avarice, this irrational greed and materialistic tendency that's destroying the planet.
Because the female's realm is the petty,mundane, materialistic(I'm not saying this to put women down, but IMO a logical consequence of their evolutionary mode of survival, a bit like you can literally kill an animal by constantly feeding it, their instinct is to keep eating coz food=survival, so a woman is NEVER SATISFIED coz she needs more protection than a male does and she does that by hoarding)and she can use her sexual powers to p-fy the male into compromising his integrity.Instead of being content with relatively little and perfecting himself, he betrays his own nature, and as a good sexslave to the female, he works for her natural goals(leading occassionaly to avarice)

I see what you're saying Helixer, at least about having a choice after you know yourself. Women though have their own perceived demons to conquer. Personally, from the stuff I have read it is in fact men who have been partially responsible for their downfall. I mean, all you have to do is look at human history and see how poorly women are were treated in the past. Sure, they may have the perceived superior end of the stick now, but that was not always so. They have indeed fallen away from their traditional role, but change shouldn't be feared. We should embrace this change, and continue to evolve into new roles suitable for both male and females.

The Aneros is a huge step in that realization, the need to be freed from a dependency of someone for sexual fulfillment. Because it is only when men are free from such influences that we can reconnect with our intuition and use that to help others reach their own levels of personal liberation. It is true that collectively, it appears that women are in fact taking advantage of men. Realize of course, that they will say the exact opposite about us and believe it to be true. And they are right, and you are right. We each take advantage of the other sex in some way at some point in our life. Rather than point fingers however, I find it much more beneficial to come up with solutions for both sexes. The ultimate solution is simply knowing yourself, knowing what you want out of life, and not being controlled by the whims of your parents, of society, of your mate, or of your friends.

I think we're speaking the same language here Helixer, and I know where it is you are coming from. I think it's important for guys to hear what you have to say, because it's another one of those things they have to ask about themselves, to challenge themselves and come to the realization as to whether or not it is important to them as individuals. This is a cause I also fight for, and the only cause I fight for. I'm not into politics or religious debates, but rather, just the fight for people to understand themselves at their deepest level. People though, men and women. I feel both are deserving because we have each shouldered our perceived demons (of our own creation).

I think it comes down to one fundamental point of contention then. You believe the emotional dependancy is independant from the sexual whereas I believe the sexual translates itself into the emotional. We rationalize our sexual needs into emotional concepts, like 'love' and 'intimacy'. I know there's a purer kind of love but this kind of love I can hardly perceive in quid pro quo relationship between a man and a woman.

Now the interesting thing will be to see how this develops. As I mentioned when talking about the Hitler Jugend, it's very hard to escape the programming society burdens you with. It took those brainwashed youths years to reprogramme their thinking, so how hard, if not impossible will it be for the middle aged and the elderly to change their thinking even if they have been biologically 're-wired'?
When boys going thru puberty are informed about their two modes of sexual expression then we can truely say there is a choise. I know it's hard for me and perhaps even harder for you as we've had years of indoctrination. But THAT will be the true testcase(not the numerous partnered Aneros users on this site)
What kind of sexuality will develop from this?
What kind of male-female relationships will develop from this(if any at all)?

I don't believe we're the 'finished product', as species we're still developing, and it's almost like a new gadget that has hidden functions you discover the handier you get. So too the human species will find hidden features externally as well as internally just waiting to be discovered or put into to use the more we develop.
I'm certainly grateful to Aneros for giving humanity the tools to progress to the next level of consciousness

Spiritualists throughout history have been accused of 'misogeny'. As I've tried to explain it's not about hating women but recognizing different evolutionary natures. This is why the clergy were celibate. Once p-fied to the women's realm, it's hard to still strive for lofty ideals and to stay focussed on one true(spirtitual)nature. Once p-fied , you'll be bound to trivialities and mundane life and the focus will turn to the limited, materialistic, temporary stuff.This is why the clergy vowed for celibacy coz they understood females to be closer to the animal spirit and they understood men had a choise between their animal nature and their divine nature.

Another great figure accused of misogeny was the great Buddha himself, Siddharta Gautama, who achieved enlightenment yet curiously, still felt the need to educate others how to achieve it. He preached non-attachment. His antagonists obviously reasoned as follows: "Where do women and making babies fit in if this guy preaches non-attachment? After all what more than anything bounds a man to earthly attachments?"

And that's true:
-goods and status to impress the woman
-greed and desiring more to provide for her and her babies
-placing women above God, becoming attached to the materialistic.

Buddha's conclusion was that attachment was the source of all suffering and non-attachment would lead to enlightenment

PS: just in case you think I'm a Buddhist, although I agree with a lot, I'm not, besides Buddhist music really sux!